112271 (Ken Jones)
You wrote:I will admit it has turned into a debate. I now realize I shouldn’t have posted this question here, but in the Atheist debate section instead,
Perhaps true, but is there not even a possibility that subconciously your questioning and desire for debate is only primarily prompted by the desire to prove ‘believers’ wrong but behind and under the surface your questions are really indicative of a yearning for truth in the innermost parts. A truth perhaps which will satisfy your inner thirst without violating your respect for scientific logic and reason.
Such truth does exist Ken. It is only ever found by ardent explorers of the word. It is wisdom brought up from deep cast mining not merely from scraping the surface of things, (which I have to admit I see all too often among my believing brethren).
PS. You wrote:logic does not demand that everything was created.
But does not logic demand that, that which is somehow became that way. The scientific Law of Conservation of Energy suggests that matter cannot be destroyed, only changed in state. Therefore the universe itself may well have changed state on the grand scale, (similarly to the way we observe matter and energy change state at the local level).
This is what we could legitimately term creation, because contrary to much that the Church has traditionally taught, the Bible nowhere states that God created the universe from nothing. Read it and see for yourself. Gen.1:1-2
It is pretty clear that we do not invent the laws of physics, we discover them. They are all already there for us to find. That indicates to me that creation and mathematics demonstrate a fundamental truth that lies beyond and behind the physicality of existence. I call that God. You might as easily or correctly call it truth, others of a more spiritual bent might even call it Love