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Keymaster

Jaime….Other Gods who sacrificed themselves to themselves for humanity and were resurected, and appeared to their followers before descending into heaven were Osiris, Quexalcote, Mithras and Chrishna.

So what Jesus did is not unusual in deity beliefs.

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George, you do pester me so…

<< I sense from some of your recent “rebuttles” that you espouse a big-time non-belief system. While you claim to be a reasoning person there is no reasoning to it. Belief tenent #1 is that God isn’t. All else must abide by that fundamental tenent. It isn’t working.>>

There is all reasoning to it and no faith and no pretense, George. I do not think that ANYTHING supernatural…AND THAT INCLUDES YOUR GOD…exists. That tenent of “no god existance” is NOTHING to my life. I may also reason that no talking sponges exist and that tenet has no importance in my life.

So what do you mean that “it (?) isn’t working”?

<<Think back Jeanne upon why you chose Atheism. It wasn’t about whether or not God is or even lack of physical evidence that God is. It was about a Christian belief system that didn’t work for you. Your current non-belief system isn’t working either. >>

I did not choose atheism from the start…is that what you mean?

No person of christianity ever gave me a good answer to my question which I first posed around 9 years old. “Who made God?”

That my church was as full of hypocrites as any other was meaningless to my final reasoning about supernatural entities. That nothing ever “touched” me from the supernatural realm was the most persuasive concept that lead me to my final reasoning about supernatural entities.

As long as I pretended, the church community would have worked for me, but that was all. Hyocrisy merely started my move away from organized realigion, but not from being a spiritual person, although I moved back and forth between christian belief and a generic deist belief.

Again, I must ask you to explain why you contend my “current non-belief system isn’t working?” And again I have to explain that as far as I had grown, my belief system worked for the child and teen that I was. So why do you think it did not work?

<<You’re trying to bring science into the mix. However, if your thoughts were to catch on you would set us back to the Golden Age of Greece when the first Atheists tried to take God or gods out of their explanations for nature and thought all matter was composed of only earth water, air and fire. And then you wrote …

“There is no spirit or soul, there is only matter.”>>

Let me explain it to you again, then. I am not speaking of elements, I am talking about the body which is chemical/biological/electrical matter. The “soul” is the “sense of me” which comes from the actions of our central nervous system, which is nothing but matter.

<<I confess that spirit, especially the human spirit, and soul is a great puzzlement to me. It puzzled Aristotle too. He wrote about it and attributed different measures of soul to humans, animals, and plants too. And then you appear to attribute morals and ehtics and values and conscience to humans who have no soul?>>

Well, guess what…Aristotle never had evolutionary biology or neurophysciatry or neurotheology (although I am unsure if that is the new terminology for this science). The “sense of me” AND “the sense of God” is not puzzling to those who study the physical attributes of the CNS which produce these.

Humans have a conscience …a ‘sense of me’..we do not need “souls” to produce an ethical code of behavior, George. We have consciences and we have functioning brains that can do that.

On the other hand, Gods have only supreme power to provide some sort of moral code based on what they want only, it is a selfish code.

<<I see in you, Jeanne, a lot of spirit or soul. I’ve said before that admire that of you. >>

I appreciate your admiration, George, but it is just the attributes of my physical “sense of me”…my conscience that you admire.

<<“I have no belief system, I am an atheist. I have come to this conclusion because no evidence ever given to me has been able to persuade me that any supernatural entities or realms exist.”

<<You’re not being honest, Jeanne. You very definitely have a non-belief system.>>

George, if I have a non-belief system, then I have no belief system….what’s with the sematics?..it is stupid.

<<It’s getting a mite obvious. Your non-belief system has painted you into the position where you must look away and ignore even scientific evidence to blindly follow your belief tenents.>>

Ha ha! You claim that because I have no belief system but have a non-belief system that I am stuck with not believing in spite of evidence that is persuasive to some people that supernatural entities exist, is that right?

What scientific evidence would persuade me that the supernatural exists, that God exists? Scientific proof of the supernatural?

<<Evidence will never “persuade” you until first you consider it>>

What do you think I do on here? Do you think I have never considered any evidence ever presented to me on Praize? How about on other sites I have been? How about my readings, or how about all the people in my life who have witnessed to me, and tried to persuade me that what they believe is truth?

What evidence have I not considered, George?

I am 52 years old. I have experienced the miracle of creating life within me. I have experienced the beauty and awesome power of this planet. I have held my dear Virginia as she died. I have gone to hell and back with my precious sister when she was crazy manic or sunk in the depths of depression. I have dealt with hypocrites, liars, cheats, theives, sluts, drunkards, child molesters, those who are physically or mentally handicapped….with sickness and death and with betrayal.

I and my husband work hard to provide a good and nurturing life for our children…good honest work, and work giving to our community and state. We keep ourselves apart from lowlifes, from those who dishonor humanity, and we try to change what we can for people who need help.

Do you not think I have ever considered God’s existance in my lifetime, or my adulthood? Do you think I am immune from the pressure of society to believe and belong? Do you think I have not needed to believe in a God in my lifetime….and do you think that had I found a God there that I would not believe?

I do not call upon any supernatural deity because there is no such thing. I have not called upon God since before my children were born, and that is 27 years ago.

If I don’t need to believe in God, why do you?

I am an atheist. I am ethical. I am compassionate. I believe in myself. I have hope for humanity, theist or atheist or polytheist, that being human is enough to bind us, and lead us to preserve our home and to attempt to bring harmony to our condition.

That’s it, George.

Jeanne

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