First, thank you Jeanne and George for a delightful conversation. It’s great to see differing opinions in a civil atmosphere.
Briefly, I don’t believe Jeanne can make a claim that ‘God doesn’t exist’, but I will understand that she doesn’t believe in “God”, and understand her claims as merely a definition. The easy scientific answer to her claim that no God exists, is to quickly point, (with all respect), “Jeanne, do you know everything?” No one can answer this question honestly with a positive response. So the next question I would ask is, “Do you think it’s POSSIBLE that God exists in the part you don’t know?” Moving on to my scientific proof.
My scientific proof is from an experiment called ‘my life’. Take it for what you will. For a very long time, I suffered from depression, and ‘suffering’ is not just a cliche. I have the scars of attempting to get away from that suffering as my evidence. For 25 years, I wandered around, trying to ask questions of Christians like, “If God can do anything, can He make a rock so big He can’t move it?” I thought I was so clever. What brought me around were 2 things, 1) a girl, and 2), being scared to death that I was the best thing out there, that I was the highest I knew, and nothing was more advanced than me.
The girl, was why I started going to church. My mom invited me, she had ‘found God’ while I was in the military. I met a girl, and started going to church because she was gorgeous. But the people at the church didn’t treat me, (who is obviously NOT so gorgeous) an different as her, and I had never encountered that before. This was very different, and I liked it. They killed me with kindness, just because ‘their God’ said so. The more I read, the more it made sense to me.
Secondly, as history has proven, I CAN NOT be the best there is. There has to be something bigger than me. I don’t think this requires any explanation. I’ll bet you agree with me without my having to give you any evidence.
I also want to pose an answer to something else that was asked in the forum earlier. Something to the effect of “Is this world the work of a benevolent god?”
I think, originally, it was. Man and his free will helped to create the mess we see today. Parents, don’t you love it when your children do something nice for you, without having to be told? The theory that gives them the opportunity to be good, gives them equal opportunity to be bad. My understanding of the Earth, civilization, etc. leads me to believe that once, ‘a long time ago’ (not in a galaxy far away), it was created perfectly, and has been getting worse and worse.
I don’t know how much Atheists but faith in the Bible, but that’s exactly what it says.
Also, one last thing, since I brought up faith. I’ll get both of these things from the Bible, also.
FAITH: “Now, faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.” Hebrews 11:1, NIV I can’t see electrons, I can’t see wind, I can’t see God, but I take on faith that they exist. (except for electrons), I can ‘feel’ them.
FAITH: “For it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith – and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God…” Ephesians 2:8, NIV. Science CANNOT prove there is a God, neither can it prove there is. God, by definition is beyond science. He appears to be beyond explanation, or I wager there wouldn’t be any atheists, or agnostics, or even the divisions among the Christian faiths. But, that brings us back to faith.
If one combines the ideas in these verses, one gets, ‘It is by accepting things that cannot be proven that one gets into Heaven.”
Again, my PROOF, is only what I’ve experienced in my own life. Just as I can’t tell you how your dinner tasted last night, neither can you explain the One I believe in. But, just as I can’t tell you that because I didn’t taste your dinner, PROVES that you didn’t eat it, neither can you PROVE that my God doesn’t exist.
I also think it’s coincidental, that the poeple I meet, who believe in God, (as opposed to Buddha, Chrishna, Odin, Zeus, whatever), that we have the SAME GOD.