Hello Mtnsvy, and welcome to atheist debate. Gotta get back to George, first.
George, by saying that atheism requires no compliance, I meant to any atheistic dogma or rules, which is why I said it is no government. Religions require compliance to theistic dogma or rules. Both are asked to comply with state rules.
Atheistic conscience or theistic conscience are to me one in the same…human conscience. Either you have one, or you don’t.
<<We do agree, Jeanne, that WHO and WHAT God is poses a big problem with deity beliefs and belief systems. I think it is a question too much neglected by Christians. Atheists avoid the question by denying that God is. I appreciate your effort to respond to my question who or what God should be. >>
This brief and spontaneous effort of what a deity/creator should be is absolutely not to be taken as a serious effort of an atheist thinking for other atheists. I think such a task would require more thought and consideration that what I gave it.
The God of Abraham is the major deity of the world’s largests religions, none of which I find worth what humanity puts into them. I think humanity would be much better off without any deity based religions, especially monotheism.
<<Considering the success of the human specie on planet earth it looks to me like earth is a mucho friendly planet for humans. It’s us humans who are unfriendly towards humans. Does that work for you? It makes big sense to me. We have heaps of evidence from human history. That nasty natural stuff like tornados, hurricanes, earthquakes, floods, blizzards, bitter cold, et al, keep our planet alive and forever changing which is a perfect environment for challenging the human spirit and intellect. It gives us a role that is more substantial and influential than any other life form on the planet.>>
Ye gods and little fishes! I think you have changed my opinion on this, George! But that is it….no more conversions!
<<If humanity were without flaw we would be boring as hell. There is a special charm to flaw. So long as we have flaw we can do things to improve upon ourselves.>>
Nah, I think you are speaking of the human psyche, while I am speaking of the human body. Let’s face it, we aren’t make to walk upright on tiny feet. What are all those extra parts, and why do they misfunction causing ER runs in the middle of the night? Do females really need to endure PMS, cramps, and menopause? Do males really have to have that darned prostate gland? Let’s improve on the eyes, please? As much water as we have all around us..how about facilitating features? How come we can’t have opposable big toes, and teeth that renew themselves? And that fragile spinal column has got to go!
Well…recycling souls just makes sense in so many ways. Course I don’t think souls exist..so…?
<<Better yet, what say that God gives us a chance to fix these illness and disease problems for ourselves? This really gives our minds and ouor intellect a workout, and it challenges our faith whether it be in God or in oursleves and our abilities. And all the while we can work together to make our planet a better place for future generations. >>
Nope…a loving deity with power would take the really nasty stuff and toss it out of the plan. Too much pain, distress and sorrow, not to mention societal chaos, has come from diseases which have overwhelmed humanity or individual humans. Then again plagues do have a culling effect, but is that what my deity would want?
<<My deity, at least from the beginning of civilization, has endeavored to challenge us to struggle towards happiness and minimize, but not eliminate, suffering for future generations of humanity. He doesn’t want us to do it perfect because there wouldn’t be anything for the next generation to endeavor towards. I think it’s kind of nifty.>>
But maybe it has just been only humanity all along that has done this. I hope for a time when generations do not have to pass before we get it “perfect.” There is more to do than struggle in our primitive state of being. There is so much time and a universe full of everything besides us…those who come after our time on this planet, those who become what we are striving to become, they will carry us into the future, and look back at mere humanity as just the beginning.
<<What the point of this “cosmic game?” Who or what is or would God be. Rather than “cop out” with a simple deity denial, you have given some wonderful answers that describe your hope for our humanity. You have given me opportunity to think on those same who and what questions and share with you, and others I hope, how I think we struggle to accomplish God’s hope for us.>>
The cosmic game of which I speak is what you believe God is. It is that “game” which God supposedly has played with humans, that I question as being pointless.
Still, whether atheist or theist, one can hope for the best for humanity. But theists have a concept of another power that controls our destiny, and an ending time for the “game” if one believes certain aspects of the word of God. To me, that makes it pointless, and it is only through atheistic thought that humanity’s struggle has a point.
There is where I place my hope.