http://www.praize.com/forums/ en-us no-reply@praize.com Thu, 23 May 2013 01:37:45 GMT Gossamer Forum by Gossamer Threads, Inc. http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification http://www.praize.com/forum/icons/gforum-logo.png http://www.praize.com/forums/ 50 50 http://www.praize.com/forums/Apologetics_C2/Christian_Debates_F17/30_Scriptural_warnings_to_Christians_about_losing_eternal_life!_P119375/?page=unread#119375 Matt 6:15 • Forgive men’s sins against you, or God will not forgive your sins against Him. Matt 10:39 • He who loses his old sinful life for Jesus sake will find eternal life. Matt 13:3-8,18-23 • 2 examples of coming to life, and then returning to the lost state. Matt 16:24-26 • Deny (lose) your old sinful life and follow Jesus to find eternal life. Matt 18:21-35 • Not forgiving others causes God to revoke His forgiving us. Mark 11:25-26 • If you do not forgive everyone, Father God will not forgive your sins. John 12:25 • He who hates his life in this world will keep his life for eternity. Rom 8:13 • Follow the Spirit and put to death the works of the flesh to gain eternal life. Rom 11:20-22 • By faith, continue in God’s goodness & fear, otherwise you will be cut off. 1 Cor 6:9-10 • People committing these sins will not inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Cor 15:2 • You are saved, if you hold fast to the word, unless you believed in vain. 2 Cor 7:10 • Godly sorrow leads Christians to repent, leading to salvation. 2 Cor 13:5 • Examine yourself to see if you are in the faith, unless you are disqualified. Gal 5:1-4 • It is possible for a Christian to be estranged from Christ and fall from grace. Gal 5:19-21 • Believers who practice such sins will not inherit the kingdom of God. Gal 6:7-8 • Sowing to the flesh reaps corruption; sowing to the Spirit reaps eternal life. Eph 5:3-6 • Disobedient believers committing such sins will incur the wrath of God. Col 3:5-6 • Disobedient believers committing such sins will incur the wrath of God. 1 Tim 5:11-12 • Some believers are condemed because they have cast off their first faith. Heb 2:1-4 • How shall we escape, if we drift away and neglect so great a salvation? Heb 3:14 • Partakers of Christ hold the beginning of their confidence steadfast to the end. Heb 6:4-8 • Those partakers of the Holy Spirit who fall away will be rejected and burned. Heb 10:26-27 • Believers who sin willfully can expect God’s fiery judgment. Heb 10:36-39 • Endure in the faith, and do not be like those who draw back to perdition. Heb 12:14 • Pursue holiness, without which no one will see the Lord. 1 Pet 1:8-9 • Believing, you will receive the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 2 Pet 1:10-11 • Be diligent to make your call and election sure, gaining the kingdom. 2 Pet 2:20-22 • A believer who returns to his sins is worse off than he was before. Rev 2-3 • All 7 churches are warned to repent and be overcomers to be: given the crown of life, clothed in white garments, a pillar in the temple of God, not hurt by the second death, etc. Rev 21:7-8 • People committing these sins will go into the lake of fire (the second death). Rev 21:27 • People committing these sins will not enter the New Jerusalem. Rev 22:14-15 • People committing these sins will not enter the New Jerusalem. Romans (the 6th NT book), chapter 6, verse 6 “… our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.” 21c22b521e63701e7607fad59a00c0d0 May 22, 2013, 5:53 PM http://www.praize.com/forums/Apologetics_C2/Christian_Debates_F17/Re%3A_%5Bchaplainbob%5D_Are_all_born-again_Christians_part_of_God%92s_elect%3F_P119374/?page=unread#119374 I have kind of a different thought on this scripture. I wonder if the "drawing" that the Lord does isn't during a particular period of time in a person's live when he/she is ready and open to Jesus knocking at the door. It seems that it would be a huge waste of time and effort for the Lord to be "drawing" when a person is happy in his sin. Usually people come when they reach the bottom of themselves. So, to me, it isn't so much WHOM He draws, but when. Blessings ~ Sarah 7305aeb72c81bf56df4bd70183fb67de May 22, 2013, 5:34 PM http://www.praize.com/forums/People_C21/Kids_C54/Friends_C69/Pen-Pals_F198/Re%3A_%5Bkaribush%5D_I_would_like_a_christian_penpal_P119373/?page=unread#119373 I would love tto be your pen pal email at halbu12@aol.com. thanks. cebc492df91b47cce77b713045a25ef6 May 22, 2013, 5:10 PM http://www.praize.com/forums/Apologetics_C2/Christian_Debates_F17/Re%3A_%5Bsojourner%5D_Are_all_born-again_Christians_part_of_God%92s_elect%3F_P119372/?page=unread#119372 God (the Holy Spirit) draws everyone to Him. Some choose to accept the "invitation" some do not. 2c91edb1e38ee41fd6369847cae29d6f May 22, 2013, 4:47 AM http://www.praize.com/forums/Apologetics_C2/Christian_Debates_F17/Re%3A_%5Bchaplainbob%5D_Are_all_born-again_Christians_part_of_God%92s_elect%3F_P119371/?page=unread#119371 chaplainbob wrote: God saves those who choose to turn to Him." And....WHO 'chooses' to turn to Him? Quote: Quote:" Joh_6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Joh_6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." Seems to me...that no one can even 'choose' to 'turn to Him'.....UNLESS the Father 'draw' (Greek..meaning literally to drag) him. Quote: Quote:"He does not choose to save certain people and let others go to Hell." Seems to me you're playing a semantic word game here. IF one CAN'T come to Him unless the Father draw/drag him, then obviously the Father makes a conscious choice as to just WHO He 'draws' to Jesus, doesn't He? Quote: Quote:"If that were the case then Jesus was in error in giving the great commission." Not really.....since HE knows who will come to Him (ALL those who the Father has given to Him), but WE DO NOT, hence the 'commission'....to preach the gospel. Blessings, 2ab429e71db107ffb4db4bf99238a14f May 20, 2013, 8:36 PM http://www.praize.com/forums/Prayer_C24/Prayer_Requests_F100/Re%3A_%5BProbiblos1948%5D_Friend's_son_in_a_coma_P119370/?page=unread#119370 God is a god of miracles and answered prayer! We give Him ALL the praise and ALL the glory! In Jesus' Name, amen. Blessings ~ Sarah afdb75dd69ac7e1c51871508dbe4c5e0 May 20, 2013, 12:51 PM http://www.praize.com/forums/Prayer_C24/Prayer_Requests_F100/Re%3A_%5BProbiblos1948%5D_Friend's_son_in_a_coma_P119369/?page=unread#119369 God is SOOOOOOOOOOOO good! ff83c157a62af09daff0db94bc55c86c May 19, 2013, 3:30 PM http://www.praize.com/forums/Prayer_C24/Prayer_Requests_F100/Re%3A_%5Bpraizeop2%5D_Friend's_son_in_a_coma_P119368/?page=unread#119368 Jake is now at home and is doing well. His mother has someone checking in with him several times each week. Thank everyone for your prayers and, thank God for His goodness. b9039a89dfdf2cabda7f133cd43d74cb May 19, 2013, 2:55 AM http://www.praize.com/forums/Bible__C4/Bible_Translations_F59/Re%3A_%5BStratfan%5D_KJV_onlyism%3A_The_Great_Divider_P119367/?page=unread#119367 Concerning the New Living Translation, read the following: The goal of any Bible translation is to convey the meaning of the ancient Hebrew and Greek texts as accurately as possible to the modern reader. The New Living Translation is based on the most recent scholarship in the theory of translation. The challenge for the translators was to create a text that would make the same impact in the life of modern readers that the original text had for the original readers. In the New Living Translation, this is accomplished by translating entire thoughts (rather than just words) into natural, everyday English. The end result is a translation that is easy to read and understand and that accurately communicates the meaning of the original text. In reality, The New Living Translation is an extensive revision of Ken Taylor's Living Bible (published by Tyndale House in 1971). It was designed to improve the accuracy of Taylor's paraphrase. c2c98536e07b37d206237423a15056fb May 18, 2013, 11:21 AM http://www.praize.com/forums/Bible__C4/Bible_Translations_F59/Re%3A_%5BProbiblos1948%5D_Interpretating_the_Bible_P119366/?page=unread#119366 Question: What are the goals of hermeneutics? There are three basic goals: 1. To understand the message God has given us. 2. To avoid mistakes and errors about what the Bible teaches. 3. To properly apply the Word of God to our lives. Questin: What factors should we be aware of that might influence our interpretation? I have a list of 18 things to be aware of: 1. Your denomination's history or tradition. 2. Things you hold as values outside of the Bible. 3. Your personal theology. 4. Your race. 5. Your gender, male or female? 6. Your place or position in society. 7. Your education 8. The priorities of the community you live in. 9. Your political views 10. Your political associations. 11. Your exposure to the Bible. 12. The Bible translation you use. 13. Your use of other tools in studying the Bible. 14. Past preaching you have heard. 15. Your attitude towards Bible scholarship. 16. Family influences. 17. Things you have been through in life. 18. Your spirituality and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Feel free to add to those things and/or to question them as you wish. e3b6d6722d72bbd3fa88af48d8572394 May 18, 2013, 10:55 AM http://www.praize.com/forums/Bible__C4/Bible_Translations_F59/Re%3A_%5Bpraizeop2%5D_Interpretating_the_Bible_P119365/?page=unread#119365 Thank you Sarah. Prat with me that the Lord will show me where to use it best for His glory. de8baedc9bcbec69b8993d3a0c7e92cf May 17, 2013, 5:40 PM http://www.praize.com/forums/General_C76/General_Topics_F74/Re%3A_%5BNannrs%5D_How_do_we_know_if_something_is_God's_Will_P119364/?page=unread#119364 John 4:34 says, Jesus said unto them, My me is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. John 5:30, says ,I can of mine own self do nothing : as I hear, I judge in my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me . John 6:38 says ,For. I came down from heaven ,, not to do mine own will , but the will of him that sent me . God has purpose and a plan for each one of us . . God bless . Pastor Fred Wilson 30077672732f6fe263003dd496f00121 May 17, 2013, 6:50 AM http://www.praize.com/forums/Bible__C4/Bible_Translations_F59/Re%3A_%5Brdrcofe%5D_Interpretating_the_Bible_P119363/?page=unread#119363 The question then is, to what extent was the situation imposed upon them by men , rather than it actually being the will of God , (scripture itself having been written down entirely by scribes of the male gender). It very possibly could be that if we are going to discuss the role of women in the church, we should start another thread. Perhaps Sarah can yell us if there is one started somewhere. I don't know of one ay this time. On the other hand, Why did God choose to use men to put His Word into writing? It was, after all, His choice and, I would say that Paul's words, "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." is the answer. God never changes? That may be true of God, but it is certainly not true of human society, or do you hanker after the good old days when you would have legitimately held the power of life and death over your slaves, and The Bible would have backed you up in it. Things sometimes change for the better, they don't universally and irrevocably change ' for the worse '. Human society definitely changes but, it is always heading in a direction contrary to God. Here, Gay marriage is gaining ground rapidly and, it is clear from Scripture that we in the church can not accept it as valid. There are many things in society that need to be rejected. Women pastors i s one of them. It began with the feminist movement. John MacArthur states it quite well, "It is amazing to me that it all began with a sort of self-justifying effort on the part of a group of lesbians who wanted to have their day in the sun and gave birth to the modern feminist movement. Feminism rises out of sinful perversion and yet in spite of its origin it has found its way into the culture of our society in almost every area and even lately into the church. " Since I really didn't get an answer, What is your opinion of the Textus Receptus (Received Text) upon which the KJV was based? My information and research says, Textus Receptus ( Latin : " received text ") is the name retroactively given to the succession of printed Greek language texts of the New Testament which constituted the textual base for the original German Luther Bible , for the translation of the New Testament into English by William Tyndale (1526), Myles Coverdale 's Bible ( 1535 ), Matthew's Bible ( 1537 ), The Great Bible ( 1539 ), The Geneva Bible ( 1557 - 60 ), The Bishops' Bible ( 1568 ), and the King James Version ( 1611 ), and for most other Reformation -era New Testament translations throughout Western and Central Europe. The Textus Receptus has been translated into hundreds of languages. (See Also The Word of God for All Nations ) The origin of the term " Textus Receptus " comes from the publisher's preface to the 1633 edition produced by Abraham Elzevir and his nephew Bonaventure who were printers at Leiden: Note that it was used to translate the KJV. Also interesting is Textus Receptus type manuscripts and versions have existed as the majority of texts for almost 2000 years. * All of the Apostolic Churches used the Textus Receptus * Peshitta ( 150 A.D. ) was based on the Textus Receptus * Papyrus 66 used the Textus Receptus * The Italic Church in the Northern Italy ( 157 A.D. ) used the Textus Receptus * The Gallic Church of Southern France ( 177 A.D. ) used the Textus Receptus * The Celtic Church used the Textus Receptus * The Waldensians used the Textus Receptus * The Gothic Version of the 4th or 5th century used the Textus Receptus * Curetonian Syriac is basically the Textus Receptus * Vetus Itala is from Textus Receptus * Codex Washingtonianus of Matthew used the Textus Receptus * Codex Alexandrinus in the Gospels used the Textus Receptus * The vast majority of extant New Testament manuscripts all used the Textus Receptus (99% of them) * The Greek Orthodox Church used the Textus Receptus . Greek manuscript evidences point to a Byzantine/Textus Receptus majority. * 85% of papyri used Textus Receptus , only 13 represent text of Westcott-Hort * 97% of uncial manuscripts used Textus Receptus , only 9 manuscripts used text of WH * 99% of minuscule manuscripts used Textus Receptus , only 23 used text WH * 100% of lectionaries used Textus Receptus . I would be surprised and delighted if I were to learn that you accept scripture may have more than a single ‘meaning’. I am aware that there are sometimes double meanings within Scripture. A prophecy, for example, may have a current and a future fulfillment as well. The more common thing is for it to have multiple applications. A principle given in a passage could apply to several different circumstances or situations. Take care and, God bless, Allen 43bfa829de2f124cf48fd3b2207143e9 May 16, 2013, 9:39 AM http://www.praize.com/forums/Bible__C4/Bible_Translations_F59/Re%3A_%5BProbiblos1948%5D_Interpretating_the_Bible_P119362/?page=unread#119362 Congratulations, Allen! We here on Praize are very proud of you. May God abundantly bless you for your diligence in getting your degree at this time of your life. (((((((((((Allen)))))))))) Blessings ~ Sarah 4ae9dc40fe7b20ad7ad4d8fa44d8ec43 May 16, 2013, 8:50 AM http://www.praize.com/forums/Bible__C4/Bible_Translations_F59/Re%3A_%5Brdrcofe%5D_Interpretating_the_Bible_P119361/?page=unread#119361 Awesome, Chris! I am enjoying your teachng. I did not realize that the man was supposed to be condemned also. Yeah!!! :) Blessings ~ Sarah d7c8c1287c9ba9e24c5a61bd5ffae83a May 16, 2013, 8:46 AM http://www.praize.com/forums/Bible__C4/The_New_Testament_F58/Re%3A_%5Bstarrgazzer3%5D_One_or_two_doctrines..._P119360/?page=unread#119360 Tongues & rapture doctrine. Come all ye faithfull... 52623c185b098f5f14dd791594f6d4a3 May 15, 2013, 1:58 AM http://www.praize.com/forums/Bible__C4/Bible_Translations_F59/Re%3A_%5Brdrcofe%5D_Interpretating_the_Bible_P119359/?page=unread#119359 Good post Chris, Like you, I wonder what was written and so have many scholars. Maybe the Lord will tell us when we get to see Him in Heaven someday. If not, then we don't need to know. I too am amazed and thankful for the grace, love and mercy of the Lord. He loved us and gave His life for us while we were sinners and rebels against Him. We have so much to be thankful and to praise Him for. I'll be back with more on the role of women etc. later. Studying hard for school. Only five more classes and I'll have my degree. Blessings, Allen c8c08d46b20f2683533be4c33ead6360 May 14, 2013, 4:11 PM http://www.praize.com/forums/Bible__C4/Bible_Translations_F59/Re%3A_%5BProbiblos1948%5D_Interpretating_the_Bible_P119358/?page=unread#119358 Hi Allen: One problem they had was that they were in violation of that law. The woman was caught in the act of adultery and, according to the law both the man and woman were to be stoned. The man wasn't there. This is further proof that this was a set up. Quite right! Jesus frequently accused the Pharisees of hypocrisy, this was an example of their biased application of the law, in their own interests, to their own ends. We are warned by Jesus not ever to ‘eat their bread’, (metaphorically to adopt their attitude to the ‘letter of the law’). But rather to understand and respect the ‘spirit’ of it. John says nothing about what Jesus wrote on the ground but, it was His words that convicted them and caused them to leave. I have often wondered what Jesus wrote there. I don’t think he was just stalling for time. Some have suggested he wrote the name of each ring leader, also naming their sins. I can imagine how that would have affected them. In any case they realized that their ploy had failed and they had neither goaded Jesus into breaking Roman law by usurping Rome’s self claimed exclusive right to exact the death penalty nor tricked him into failing to uphold the letter of the law of Moses, but had rigidly upheld the requirement that there must be 3 witnesses who are in no way implicated and also both male and female involved must be prosecuted and punished. Neither of these requirements of the law were actually met, you are quite right in pointing that out. However it is still remarkable, is it not, that Jesus himself declared that HE did not ‘condemn’ her either. Blanket condemnation of adulterers in the name of purity of 'religion' gets no support from this passage of scripture. But then again neither does promiscuous disregard for the standards expected of us by God as subjects in The Kingdom of His Son. “Neither do I condemn you”! ( .. Here is the miracle of the grace of God. There is no greater wonder than this. The turning of the water into wine, the healing of a dying lad by a word, the feeding of five thousand and more with a lad’s snack lunch, the walking on a storm-tossed inland sea; none of these, nor all of them together, compares with this, that Jesus said " neither do I condemn you ". In this sentence, and in the heart of mercy which lay behind it, is all our hope and all our salvation for ever.. ) ( .. .. ) From ‘The Message of John’ by Bruce Milne. You see; how we read and interpret this passage can profoundly affect how we deal with those who have broken ‘the law’. We have a choice to either have the attitude of the Pharisees, or the attitude of Jesus Christ. Some may interpret the passage we have just studied as a perfect example of how Christ upheld the law to the letter, insisting upon both the accused being punished at the testimony of three witnesses not implicated in the crime. They might then go on to imagine that God deals with miscreants today in the same fashion, God nor the law having changed. Others may see God, (in Jesus Christ), saying “Neither do I condemn you - Go now and leave your life of sin”. Mercy from God calls for a life lived unto God. As it says in ‘Les Mis‘; “To love another person is to see the face of God”. Regards Chris. ab12cdc2dfe2b88d58325476ef148968 May 14, 2013, 3:38 PM http://www.praize.com/forums/Bible__C4/Bible_Translations_F59/Re%3A_%5Brdrcofe%5D_Interpretating_the_Bible_P119357/?page=unread#119357 Good Morning Chris, Looks like we have a lot ahead of us on this one but, that's OK. I don't mind if you don't and we will both learn something in the process. We both agree that comparing Scripture with Scripture is a vital first step for the proper interpretation of Scripture. Let's look at the example you supplied. So for example, the scriptural injunctions found in Leviticus and Deuteronomy requiring the stoning to death of miscreants for various crimes must be balanced against the teachings of Jesus Christ and his example in dealing with just such a situation, where he was required by law, and according to his own words to ‘pick up the first stone and deliver the penalty of the law’. Jesus refrained from picking up the first stone and casting it but not because he was sinful like everyone else, yet sinless though he was, and therefore qualified to throw, he did not follow his own advice, but chose rather to pardon the accused women, even though the affair (on a superficial scriptural analysis of the situation), was an open and shut case of adultery. I try to interpret scripture the way Jesus did. I try to have a mind like his. Consequently the verses I read in Leviticus and Deuteronomy have less force when balanced against the teachings of Jesus Christ and the apostles. Adultery is still against 'The Law' but we may deal with it differently now than the 'Children of Israel' did in Moses time. Things change! I assume that the passages you are speaking of are Deuteronomy 22:22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel. Also it says in Leviticus 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. Those are the ones that apply to the situation in John 8 at least. There is another factor to consider though and, that is the context of the passage you are studying. Let's take a look at it: John 8:1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives. John 8:2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. John 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, John 8:4 They say unto him, Maste r, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. John 8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? John 8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. John 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. John 8:8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. John 8:9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. John 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? John 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. The first thing I notice is who Jesus was dealing with. Verse 3 says it was the scribes and Pharisees. These are the ones Jesus had trouble with from the beginning of His ministry. In fact, these were the ones who conspired against Him to put Him to death (See John 11:53; Matthew 27:1 etc.) Next notice that in 4 they tell Jesus, " Maste r, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act." They go on to describe the requirement of the law that she be stoned. Verse 6 tells us they were testing Him and looking for a reason to accuse Him of violating the Law of Moses. One problem they had was that they were in violation of that law. The woman was caught in the act of adultery and, according to the law both the man and woman were to be stoned. The man wasn't there. This is further proof that this was a set up. John says nothing about what Jesus wrote on the ground but, it was His words that convicted them and caused them to leave. Now there were no accusers and the law required at least two or three witnesses. In the absence of those witnesses, Jesus exercised another prerogative that He had. He forgave her sin and told her to go and sin no more. (see Mat_9:6; Mar_2:10; and Luke_5:24). Here, as in other places throughout Scripture, taking the context of the passage and comparing other Scriptures leads us to a proper interpretation of the passage. The law was upheld and was sill binding on the woman. I might add that it is just as binding on us today. We are to flee fornication and live righteous lives before God and man. I'll be back later with more on the remaining points of your post. If not, I'll write a book here and we will never make any progress. God bless, Allen 0527c7f94cbc2661517344ce5206c1a3 May 14, 2013, 3:47 AM http://www.praize.com/forums/Bible__C4/Bible_Translations_F59/Re%3A_%5Brdrcofe%5D_Interpretating_the_Bible_P119356/?page=unread#119356 I knew what you meant, Chris. I was just pulling your chain. (an American expression for teasing!) I enjoy your posts. Thanks for being here. Blessings ~ Sarah 5efe463408121f9cc81dd6284f128fc5 May 13, 2013, 12:30 PM