Once Isaiah 14:12-14 is realized....that satan wants worship, then it becomes easy to see the counterfeits satan has, to God spiritual things.

Example #1.) God's gift of Tongues, satan has counterfeited with his own gift of tongues found, in many churches today (Revelation 16:13,14).



Example #2.) satan has set up his own day of worship in counterfeit to God's 4th commandment (7th day Sabbath)....satan invented, Sunday worship services....and he picked a perfect way to decieve the Christian world !

The Bible prophecied it to happen, in Daniel 7:25....'think to change times and laws'.



#3.) The Rapture theory....counterfeits Jesus Christ's 2nd coming...

Tim, I think you get enjoyment out of disagreeing with most of what the majority in Christian circles have believed for 2000 years. Could it be, that it will just Jesus and you in heaven?

What about all the rest of us who have a passionate love for God, who have found our salvation in His Son, and are really trying to make a difference in a terribly misguided world? Can we actually lose our salvation by not agreeing with you about the Sabbath, the rapture and such things? Why not focus on the cross and Jesus, for He has made it possible for our sins to be forgiven. The other stuff will work itself out simply because God knows what is the truth and that truth cannot be changed by us in any way. Blessings.

Tim, I think you get enjoyment out of disagreeing with most of what the majority in Christian circles have believed for 2000 years.

[color blue]You mean you haven't read where the majority are 'ALWAYS' wrong...in religious matters ?

Matthew 7 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and [many] there be which go in thereat:

7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and [few] there be that find it.

7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither NO MATCH FOR can,



Can we actually lose our salvation by not agreeing with you about the Sabbath, the rapture and such things?

I have nothing to do with it.....to disobey what God says to do, will prove the downfall to anyone.

Remember...the Bible says, that those who keep the commandments of God get into heaven, (Revelation 22:14)



Why not focus on the cross and Jesus..... Sin is what put Jesus on the cross....your sin and mine !

We are resposible for Christ's agony on the cross, because we don't get it thru our heads how much sin hurts Jesus !



We just keep right on committing sin, like breaking the 4th commandment, the 7th day sabbath, because we don't see how we hurt Jesus every day, otherwise we would STOP sinning !

Sorry Tim, there are too many areas of disagreement. That is why we must try to agree on the essentials. I do agree with you that it was our sin that put Jesus on the cross, but He went there willingly knowing that His blood had to be shed in order for us to be forgiven. Of course there are many who fail to live for Christ as they should, but there are also many who do. We must be careful in our judgments, for in the same manner we judge, we will be judged.

We must be careful in our judgments, for in the same manner we judge, we will be judged.

[color blue] Be careful that satan will accuse those who would warn others of danger....as judging.



As satan wants no one to be aware of their personal danger, he suggest to them that others are judging them, when in reality the warnings are of danger and not judgment.

daredevil,

I'm agreeing with nearnorth on this one. The narrow road is hard enough, as Jesus said it would be, without anyone making it harder on anyone!

God bless.

daredevil,

I'm agreeing with nearnorth on this one. The narrow road is hard enough, as Jesus said it would be, without anyone making it harder on anyone!

Just remember....Jesus said He didn't come to bring peace !

No agruement from me on that one! I haven't seen peace much around me, or in my life. I never expect there to be peace until I get to heaven, or Jesus comes back; whichever comes first. I don't want to give someone else, let alone myself, more burdens to carry on the narrow road than they have already.

No agruement from me on that one! I haven't seen peace much around me, or in my life. I never expect there to be peace until I get to heaven, or Jesus comes back; whichever comes first. I don't want to give someone else, let alone myself, more burdens to carry on the narrow road than they have already.



Teaching the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:3-17) to others, is the only way, to let them know how to have peace....as Jesus Christ did.

Ok, I need to clarify: Jesus's peace lives within me, and I have contentment with myself. What's around me isn't peaceful.

Ok, I need to clarify: Jesus's peace lives within me, and I have contentment with myself. What's around me isn't peaceful.



"Great peace have they which love thy Law", (Psalms 119:165)

I do love God's law. It is something that cannot be changed or twisted or refuted, for starters. I was talking, mostly, about the world. As for the rest, a lot of people around me are not Christians, and their lives are chaotic because of it (and they don't know peace).

 If the christian always had it easy, then people would become christians just to have it easy.

I wrote an article: "Desire for an Easy Religion", that deals with that very subject.

The article can be read on my website:

"Institute of Biblical Knowledge"

http:// www.iofbk.com

I have a question then.....



I was taught that ALL fall short of the Glory of God....that NO man can keep the commandments as laid down in the Old Testament...as we all break these commandments even in our hearts and minds. They ARE very important...extremely important....guidelines....but when Jesus died on the cross and rose again we were no longer "under the LAW"...but that new laws would be written on the tablets of each man's heart...that each man would have different convictions unique to him to keep him on the straight and narrow. That Jesus said it ALL boils down to loving God and loving others as He has loved us. As simple as that. So are you saying that Jesus didn't pay a big enough price that we ARE still "under the law"???? I was also taught that when Jesus died that the sabbath (keeping one day Holy and for rest in the Lord) could therefore be different for each man because we are no longer 'under the law'.....hmmmm......

imamommee you are correct in all that you have said and I would suggest it all fits into what nearnorth rightfully suggested in "agreeing on the essentials". Beyond that we are individually led by the Spirit.



This thread seems to only be an example of when good intended passion swells into pride. Some people just like to bring gloom and doom to bring the attention to what "I did" or "I think" rather than glory and edification to His name.



Be Blessed

I was also taught that when Jesus died that the sabbath (keeping one day Holy and for rest in the Lord) could therefore be different for each man because we are no longer 'under the law'.....hmmmm......



'Under the Law' means, a person is practicing sin (Romans 3:19).

Those who keep Sunday worship services, are examples, of people still under the Law....because they commit sinful practices, instead of allowing Jesus Christ, to enable them to overcome sin, thru the power of God, in their lives.



The 10 commandments (Exodus 20:3-17) is called the 'Law of Liberty', (James 2:10-12).

I was also taught that when Jesus died that the sabbath (keeping one day Holy and for rest in the Lord) could therefore be different for each man because we are no longer 'under the law'.....hmmmm......



'Under the Law' means, a person is practicing sin (Romans 3:19).

Those who keep Sunday worship services, are examples, of people still under the Law....because they commit sinful practices, instead of allowing Jesus Christ, to enable them to overcome sin, thru the power of God, in their lives.



The 10 commandments (Exodus 20:3-17) is called the 'Law of Liberty', (James 2:10-12).



So, let me get this straight (yet again)....anyone who worships Jesus on Sunday is still in sin. Or did I get that wrong in what I read?

<<<<< shalynn say......I was also taught that when Jesus died that the sabbath (keeping one day Holy and for rest in the Lord) could therefore be different for each man because we are no longer 'under the law'.....hmmmm......



'Under the Law' means, a person is practicing sin (Romans 3:19).

Those who keep Sunday worship services, are examples, of people still under the Law....because they commit sinful practices, instead of allowing Jesus Christ, to enable them to overcome sin, thru the power of God, in their lives.



The 10 commandments (Exodus 20:3-17) is called the 'Law of Liberty', (James 2:10-12).



So, let me get this straight (yet again)....anyone who worships Jesus on Sunday is still in sin. Or did I get that wrong in what I read?>>>>>>>>>>>>>



Victoria respond...... It is true we are no longer under the law. You right with that.



Sabbath day is the day of rest also known as God's people not allowed to work.



Mark 3:4

And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.



Sabbath day to us now. By doing good not evil.



Jesus said........Matthew 12:11

And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?



Basicly Jesus saying......... If a person needing help for food, or etc.... Aren't you going to help him out?



Or if your sheep fell off into a pit.... Aren't you going lift it out?



Basicly Jesus saying by doing good there is no limit wether or Sabbath or not.

Ok, so if I keep a Sabbath Day, and keep it holy unto God, and rest as He commanded me, there is no agruement from anyone on that then?

One of satan's most successful weapons against Christians is Christian pride. Thinking you are absolutely right and the only one with revelation from God is pride.



Understand this. When the liar can turn brother against brother and cause division in the body, he celebrates. Remember, even the apostles didn't agree on everything, yet they walked in love. Let's disagree without being disagreeable.

sounds like a good plan to me!

Me too :

Revsuz has a way of hitting a nail exactly on its head! Check out her blogs at http://www.praize.com/cgi[...]7333750



God bless.