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Nativity Story is Deceptive

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Nativity Story is Deceptive
Christians should really take a look at what "magi" (three wise men)are. This is a plural GREEK ROOT WORD for "magic" or "magicians". Read the story prayerfully and carefully. These men were possesed by Satan just like people from the "Wicca" religion. This was a New Age Plot to kill the baby Jesus. When you read the story, look *behind the scenes* at what the devil is whispering in the ear of Herod when the magi tell him that a king will be born to usurp his throne. this led to the death of all those children and it started with these so-called "wise-men from the east. Don't be fooled by Satan. We are not ignorant of his schemes.

The deception that people have fallen under has led some astray in believing that magic and astrology is of God.

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Re: Nativity Story is Deceptive In reply to
Magic and astrology are not God's tools, that's for sure. God does use nonbelievers quite often, and He even says He will!! He used the magi to honor His Son, especially when one looks at what gifts were given Him! That the children were killed on Herod's orders was from satan, and that's quite known as well. That the magi weren't believers hasn't been in dispute that I know of! That they were astrologers isn't either. Of course, Herod went after Jesus after the magi left his court! He didn't know about Jesus until then, so doing so before would have been hard to do, yes? The magi were not out to kill Jesus, though the devil was and used Herod to that end at that time. The last I checked, most believers know to be on the lookout for the devil's schemes, for God warns us that the devil roams about like a hungry lion, ready to devour those who are not watching!
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Re: Nativity Story is Deceptive In reply to
I do not like the story of the wise men either. They caused the death of all the babies in Israel by visiting Herod and telling of Christ's birth.

OK they gave some gold that may have helped the Holy family when in Egypt but if they had stayed away the problems would not have happened anyway.

The three Kings thing is really big in Spain but again I have never liked the story-especially with the massacre of the innocents firmly attached.
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Re: Nativity Story is Deceptive In reply to
*sighs* The magi themselves didn't cause the deaths; Herold did, as he's the one who ordered them, NOT the magi. And all of it was prophecied years before it happened. I don't like the deaths either, but yet, it's part of th story. If you take it out, what else will you take out of the story as well due to distaste? And mind you, God is the One who wrote this story to start and end with!
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Re: Nativity Story is Deceptive In reply to
I love and believe the nativity story of how Christ was born in a stable and the shepherds seeing the star and everything.

However I still do not like the three kings. They may have been prophesised(maybe you could say where in the Bible this is?? Shalynn-)but they caused terrible bloodshed and woe.

Also Magi is associated with the occult.

Herod was totally evil but once told of a king being born he dreamed up the killing of innocent babies.All associated with the Magi.
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Re: Nativity Story is Deceptive In reply to
Looks like some people have been smoking too much of the ol' waccy baccy again... you are casting aspersions on the character of God, do you not realise? If you don't like the Nativity as it was written, perhaps try writing your own version - there're already heaps of false gods and religions out there, so there's plenty of room for you to fit in.
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Re: Nativity Story is Deceptive In reply to
So people are not allowed to logic and think without the insult of being accused of taking drugs????

You are well out of order on this one adventist rock.

Thanks for the Christian empathy!!!
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Re: Nativity Story is Deceptive In reply to
 serrae (viv parker):

However I still do not like the three kings.

What is not to 'like' about them? They were only doing what they thought they ought to do, having worked out that 'The King of all Kings' was to be born in Palestine somewhere.

Most of us, (indeed I would say all of us can only claim to be doing what we HOPE is God's will, 'following our star' as best we can, in the hope that we will end up meeting 'The King of Kings').

You are quite right though, the Three Magi were misguided in thinking that God had invited them to the manger bed. The only persons actually invited were the shepherds, (they had an angelic invitation), the so called THREE 'Kings', (though we have no idea how many there actually were, two, three, or maybe even four or five plus their servants etc.), were actually gatecrashers at the party and yes they inadvertently initiated a chain of events that God had to intervene and sort out by warning them in a dream. (God obviously knew what was going on and tried His best to sort it, but they had already put the cat amongst the pigeons and, well we all know how it ended badly for the babes in Bethlehem and round about).

The "Wise" men are an excellent allegory for our misguided and bumbling attempts to please God, without the discernment of 'obedience' and 'true knowledge of God's ways'.

Isn't it just as well that Jesus has made it unnecessary for us to 'try to please God by our own discernment and efforts', HE has done ALL that for us already. All we have to do is what 'The wise men decided to do', 'return to our own home by a DIFFERENT ROUTE, namely 'The WAY'.

Regards Chris.
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Re: Nativity Story is Deceptive In reply to
Ok, let's see if I can be clearer than I was before. God, through His prophets, had said that Jesus was coming. He didn't specify about the magi. He did, however, plan the whole thing out, and if anyone thinks that the magi ordered the deaths, where is that in the story? 'cause last I checked, Herod did that one due to his paronia, and that was prophesied! (See about Rachael weeping over the children in the Old Testament!) God didn't have to work around anyone just coming into His story, like someone could outplan God! And, here's one for you: how did the magi know about Jesus' birth without God's help? (I'll put in more when I've got some more time.)
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Re: [Eural Jones] Nativity Story is Deceptive In reply to
I think this deserves some fixing up. The magos were influenced by God, not Satan. Satan had not a clue as to the moment Jesus was born. He is not omnipresent or omniscient, can't be everywhere, not knowing all. What is offensive is the old traditional Christmas card version of the birth of Jesus. The magi missed that event by 2 years. Shocked? Freaked out? Read on.

Please study Matthew chapter two to confirm the following. I also recommend using a concordance to examine key Greek words for clarification. I dare use the KJV, my favorite because I have memorized mostly from that version. My comments on each passage are numbered.

Matthew 2:1 "Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,"

1. We know from Luke Jesus was dedicated at Jerusalem at age 8 days, so Mary & Joseph had already departed Bethlehem for home at least by age 7 days. The only reason they were in Bethlehem was to be taxed, and of course fulfill prophecy.

2. The "wise men" comes from the Greek "magos", translated both sorcerer and wise man, but never both ways in the same verse. The layout of the story doesn't fit "sorcerer", which I will try to show below. In those days of the Roman Empire that word usually referred to oriental/eastern scientists who doubled as traders, exploring the world, engaged in discovery. We know they came from the "east" of Jerusalem, with no specific country of origin documented. They were obviously wealthy men, but not oil rich sheiks (as I read in one book) since oil had not been marketed yet. Anyone engaged in a science field in those days would have been deemed at least partly a magician simply because the things they did might mystify folks, like scientists do the unlearned today. If they also cast spells or performed mind control, then the popular term was "sorcerer". There are no signs of that recorded of those men.

Matthew 2:2 "Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him."

1. Before meeting with Herod, the wise men asked that question as they traveled, perhaps all across the continent. As they drew closer to Judea the word spread like wildfire that a convoy of foreigners was asking around, troubling all of Jerusalem as well as Herod.

2. The star appeared to the foreigners while back home in the east. They then sought to follow it like someone might try to find the end of a rainbow and the treasure chest. I don't believe Satan is god-like enough to cause that star to appear to the men.

3. The foreigners came seeking "the King of the Jews", and to worship him. I fail to see anything satanic in that. That the men saw a magnificent sign and embarked on a journey that took them two years, probably moving only at night while the star was visible, takes their quest higher than a desire to worship an earthly king. The men had passed through territory held by Rome, headed by emperors desiring that folks worship them.

4. Notice they already knew the significance of the prophesied King of the Jews. Such information was available to traders far from Israel, the Hebrew Bible well distributed through the Roman Empire, wherever Jews settled. A scholar would be able to discern that prophecy, and most certainly these scientists beat the scholars of Israel to the punch.

5. Notice they had no answers to their questions yet, soon to appear in Jerusalem at the order of Herod. What would have caused the priests and scribes of Jerusalem to miss such a major event? They apparently had no clue it had happened, but knew it would someday (v. 3-6). My own personal opinion is God opened some eyes to see the star, preventing the merely curious from seeking it out and causing extreme problems for Mary and Joseph. God kept all of Israel in ignorance, including Satan.

Matthew 2:7-8 "Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared. [8] And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also."

1. Herod needed to know when the star first appeared to the wise men. None of the experts knew, so the event was unknown to them. The date of the first appearance would set the probable age of the child Jesus.

2. The king commissioned the men to go to the place the priests and scribes indicated as the birthplace of the Savior. I find it interesting Herod didn't send his own forces out to locate Jesus in a little town only hours away by marching, a mere five miles south of Jerusalem. He realized the ace up his sleeve was to use the wise men who were not recognizable as linked to Herod. A clue that date was about two years earlier is the use of the Greek word for "young child", being "paidion". That word is never used for an infant, but for an immature child, what Americans call a "toddler" or older. The Greek for an infant, as Jesus was lying in the manger, is "brephos". This is an example of the value of looking up the original language words, then weighing the most likely definition that fits the context. Bible translators followed the same process in properly translating, though some used different source manuscripts. There is no dispute over the use of those two words.

3. Herod faces judgment over that last statement, a lie concerning his desire to worship the child. The proof of which party, Herod or the Magos were used of Satan lies in which actually did what they announced, worshiping Jesus. Herod didn't.

Matthew 2:9-10 "When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was. [10] When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy."

1. The star that first appeared to the men continued on, yet still not one priest or scribe showed a bit of curiosity, not likely seeing it at all. Instead of following Herod's order they continued to follow the star. It didn't lead them to Bethlehem! It led them to the young child Jesus, stopping over his location. Again, I can't see a bit of satanic influence concerning this event, the star hovering right over Jesus, and the foreigners rejoicing over it.

Matthew 2:11 "And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshiped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh."

1. The men entered a house, not a manger. The shepherds were the visitors to the manger in Bethlehem. The Greek for "house" is oikia, a permanent abode, a regular style residence. The Greek for "manger" is phatne, for a livestock stall. Joseph was from Nazareth, where he would have had a house, where he took his bride Mary. Remember Joseph had to go to Bethlehem to pay taxes, so he left his home, using a stall for Jesus' birth.

2. The men laid eyes on Jesus worshiping Him as ought to be. Notice they didn't worship Mary. Satan would not have anyone fall to their knees worshiping Jesus for any reason. This was all a tribute to God, to Jesus. So were their precious gifts. They were sufficient to finance the family journey to Egypt to evade the wrath of Herod until Herod died.

Matthew 2:12 "And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way."

1. The men immediately departed not to Jerusalem to tell Herod about Jesus, but for home by some route from Nazareth avoiding Jerusalem. We don't have a clue. Do you suppose it took Herod two years to figure out the men didn't obey? 5 miles away? The nation filled with informers and soldiers, clergy, and other observers loyal to Herod? Remember all of Jerusalem was disturbed over the news. I have no doubt someone wasn't posted to spy on the men once they entered Bethlehem. When the men failed to show up 5 miles away it was obvious they went elsewhere. Anyway, some book authors speculate Herod waited two years before taking action over the missing wise men. Absurd!

Matthew 2:16-18 "Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men. [17] Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, [18] In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not."

1. I will conclude here. Herod quickly realized the wise men had defied him, and eluded him. They were not found according to record. So it was that the king ordered the deaths of all male children aged 2 and under to match the time of the first appearance of the star to the wise men, beginning in Bethlehem, exactly as prophesied. Satan used Herod to try to kill Jesus, but was too late. Jesus and family was on their way to Egypt. Had the priests and scribes' eyes been opened to the scriptures they could have advised Herod of the route to chase Jesus down. But that didn't happen. God blinded Satan and anyone else that could have interrupted the divine plan of salvation. This adds to my confidence that even today Satan can't possibly know enough in time to stop me from carrying out whatever the Lord wants of me. God remains at least one step ahead of him.

Be fishers of men.....DG

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dovegiven: Aug 8, 2011, 2:30 PM
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Re: [shalynn] Nativity Story is Deceptive In reply to
Very true. The Magi were called 'King Makers'. They followed a special star which led to the house where Mary, Joseph and Jesus were. The purpose was to honor the King of the Jewish Nation. God was behind it all.