The Bible talks quite a bit about meditation -- but I know very few christians who practice the discipline...



I'd like to hear some thoughts about meditation -- what it is, who should do it, how it should be done, why/why not meditate, etc.



I believe I would like to begin the discipline -- so any thoughts will be appreciated.



linda marie

The Bible talks quite a bit about meditation -- but I know very few christians who practice the discipline...

My first question for you is by what do you mean meditation....Eastern Meditation or something else...





I think that today, many people view meditation as a means to develop their natural and psychic powers. It can be used to get into a state of self-relaxation. This kind of meditation, that is, Eastern meditation, is characterized by self-centered ideals. It uses methods like concentrating on objects, exercising "controlled" breathing, and uttering repetitive phrases or sounds so that the person can empty their mind of all kinds of distractions, which when they do will supposedly enable a person to reach an altered state of consciousness, a state of harmony with himself and the universe.



This is very dangerous, to say the least, because it draws people away from God by encouraging them to look inside themselves rather than to God. Also, the kind of meditation we are talking about right now is tied closely to Eastern philosophies which run against biblical teachings. Not only that, but the notion of emptying one's mind opens up the possibility of demonic deception, manipulation, and yes, even possession.



Yes, God's word does speak of meditation. But He to meditate on His law day and night (Josh. 1:8)! However, biblical meditation doesn't involve looking within ourselves or emptying our minds for selfish reasons. Rather, it urges believers to consider and deeply think about God's Person and faithfulness -- not only that, it also calls us to look to His Word (Psa. 119), and His creation (Psa. 19, 104). So God is looking for us to consider Him both night and day. To keep our eyes fixed on the goal. To quote Book of Psalms: "Blessed is the man...[whose] delight is in the law of the Lord, who meditates on his law day and night." (Psa. 1:1-2 NIV). It is so important not only that we delve into the Word of God, but that we embed His Word in Our Hearts. That we allow God to write His Law on our Hearts.

Thanks for the reply, top...



I find it interesting that when I bring the subject of meditation up, almost everyone's initial reaction is negative... It seems to be one of those things God has given us, but we have let satan steal...



I really don't know what "meditation" means in the Bible... I am just beginning to look into it.



I know both Peter and Paul "fell into trances" while praying... (weird, huh?)



And on the "physical" side of it -- I don't believe God withholds good things from us. So if there is a physical benefit from "quieting" yourself, I think that could be okay... I mean, we are told to rest in the Lord...



Do you meditate... and if so, how?



linda marie

Good thoughts, Hope.



As a believer, I think it follows that "in Him I live and breathe and have my being"... so, I am with you -- in Him, I am safe...



But there's this desire to know Him more... and I'm wondering if He could be calling me to get to know Him in a way that is "new" for me...



And if this "new way" is meditation -- I'd like some teaching on it... like I said earlier, we've sort of handed "meditation" to the "easterners"... Maybe the "western" way is "mediCation"







lindamarie

Well I'm just getting familiar with this process but when I'm able to be of help I'll do my part. Go to Newlight.org resources and the text of biblical meditation is covered in many lessons but one of the most recent is "

Cashing In On Your Sonship." it's a tape series but I promise you it will be worth the investment. There's so much supporting scripture that i can present but right now time is of the essence so it'll have to be later.

Until then be blessed in the Lord!!

lindaarie

you asked:Do you meditate... and if so, how?



Yes. I have been using a form of christian meditation for many years and recently (within the last 4 years), discovered it to be Ignatian Meditation. I discovered the method without being aware that St. Ignatius Loyola (1491 or 1495-1556), developed a series of 'spiritual exercises', the object of which are intended to open up our subconcious desires and reveal the issues that God wishes most for us to consider about our own way of relating to Him and to our fellow men, along with the unconcious limitations we put upon our own spiritual potential by witholding our TOTAL and COMPLETE trust in Jesus, our Eternal Father and the Holy Spirit.



The exercises are usually entered upon under guidance from a spiritual councellor or guide and were originally intended to be undertaken during a 4 week retreat (withdrawel from the world of passion. work and endeavour), in order to concentrate souly on God and His will for us as an individual.



The exercises take two standard forms. (1)a form of deep meditation upon certain scripture passages allowing certain phrases or even a single word to burn itself into ones conciousness until it seems to speak directly to you. Memories, fears, faults and past sins can swim arround and illuminate issues yet undealt with, fears yet unfaced, sins yet unconfessed, and faults yet unadmitted. The healing comes about through discussion with your councellor, who will not advise, only lead you back to what GOD might be speaking to you of. What you make of it and do about it is up to you and God.



Another method (2), is to read a passage of scripture and place yourself in the scripture itself.

It might be the last supper or waiting with the rest of the disciples for the second return of Jesus to the upper room. Imagine FREELY, really let your imagination take you ANYWHERE it pleases. (Who are you, where are you, what do you FEEL emotionally). Discover within yourself the subconcious (not the intellectual or the feelings you are supposed to feel and present to the world), but the feelings you REALLY have. Discover (and sometimes be scarily shocked by what is really deep inside you), harness it and turn it over into God's service under His discipline. You will find all sorts of dark things there and also many wonderful assurances of God's love for you in spite of the dark corners you hide from Him and others.



It is not at all the same as studying scripture, (I do that too), It is more like letting scripture study YOU and every bit as revealing of the truth.



I am convinced that this inner life has been almost TOTALLY ignored by Protestant Evangelicalism, much to its spiritual impoverishment. The loving heart seems to have gone out of many Biblical based Evangelical ministries because of an almost TOTAL reliance on (get saved formulas) and a lack of REAL relationship on a SPIRITUAL level with Jesus.



The form I actually discovered and used extensively is to find a private place, read a passage of Jesus' teaching ALOUD. Question him on it, don't hold back, really QUESTION his most difficult sayings. Relax and let HIM answer you through your own voice (in the spirit). Rather like speaking in tongues but with plain english and sit back and listen to what you say in answer (or debate). I have had AMAZING answers to difficult biblical questions this way. The place needs to be VERY private, unless you don't care if people think you are mad. Remember Jesus went out early to pray in a PRIVATE place. He also said enter your room and speak to God in PRIVATE, and GOd will reward OPENLY.



Hope this has given you some ideas. Regarding some advice given by other posters here. Trancendental Meditation is not necessarily harmful, I know some very gentle and well integrated folks who do it. I also know some fearful, angry and unrestful Christians who would studiously avoid it, (mostly I suspect because they have so much noise going on inside them that they prefer to sing loud choruses rather than quietly listen to what God wants to say to them. Some might not like what they might find 'inside' themselves. Others might simply be herd followers and do as they are told.



There is no danger for a Child of God in reaching out to Him in prayer or going into youself to find Him in meditation. There is nothing more important to God than the health of your 'soul', and nothing more important for you or I than knowing what is 'important' to God. We can discover that in a GENERAL sense through scripture but ONLY in a personal sense through meditative prayer.



Love Chris.

What a wonderful response, Chris...



I'm pretty sure we don't have any "spiritual counsellors" or "guides" around here...



But I know that our God is not limited by that...



For a very long time, I have realized that prayer is more than just talking -- it is also listening...



Maybe the discipline of meditation will "tune my ears", so to speak...



How did you begin meditating? Were you involved with a group? I guess I could call some of the local (more liturgical) churches and see what, if anything, is offered...



I believe this is something I really need in my life.



Thanks again!



lindamarie

lindamarie



Thanks.



you wrote:How did you begin meditating?



I started taking my lunchbreak on fine days one summer 25 years ago in a secluded place where I could not be aproached unseen or overheard. I was struggling with the issue of whether I should become a concientious objector and leave the armed services, (I was serving in the Royal Navy at that time and had recently returned from a Far East draft, where I had 3 times almost lost my life accidently and had discovered my need for God and His love for me at a personal level). I talked with God and read a lot of scripture. It was at this time that I developed the habit of talking to God and allowing Him to answer me through my own voice and the words from an open bible, (usually through a paragraph or passage at a time).



:Were you involved with a group?



No. not at first. Though it is wise to check out your 'revelations' with other Christian friends to avoid becoming too 'whacky' or doctrinally maverick. I have continued since then to worship as an Anglican, (Church of England), but also fellowship with a very wide variety of people and churches with different views.



I try to get a couple of weeks a year at a retreat house in the Highlands of Scotland which a dear friend Joice Ferne runs for a Trust. I could recommend the writings of one of the Trust founders, Gerry Huges, a Jesuit Priest. He wrote 'God of Surprises' and some other good, readable stuff which are good introductions to Ignation Meditation.



The scenery at 'The coach House' is stunning and the solitude awesome. One can definitely see clearer and feel closer to God on top of even a small mountain. The retreat house is at Inverness and overlooks a tidal estuary with woods and a beautiful little Loch in the caldera of an extinct volcano within 10 minutes walk of the house.



The mechanics of meditation, posture, breathing, stilling, relaxation, imagination etc. are not difficult, just a bit strange if you are not used to spending quality time quietly with God. I have a list of simple practical pointers from the retreat house if you would like them. The greatest temptation is to get bored and give up too soon. The first time I tried 'exercises' I got nothing for three days. It took me that long just to learn to be quiet and I am still not very good at it, (I am an inveterate talker).



The greatest benefit that seems to come from meditation is a quieter soul and a less judgemental attitude to others. This comes mostly from knowing oneself better (but I certainly havn't plumbed the depths there yet), and being more sure of God's overall concern and fatherhood no matter what, (not here yet either).



Hope you try and enjoy it.



Love Chris.

Good info, Chris. I have put in a request to my local library to try to find a copy of "God of Surprises" by Gerry Hughes through interlibrary loan...



I would also be interested in your pointers...



My life is fairly undisciplined and I am sure that one of the hardest things for me will be to set aside a time and stick to it. I am the type person who makes myself as availalble as I am able to my family and friends -- and since I work full time besides, I often have more to do than I have hours....



Although, I too, am a talker -- and bounce off the walls a bit -- I love to get in a quiet place with the Lord... It's just a challenge to find that place and that time, without interuption.



Occasionally I get away to New Orleans (of all places) by myself -- and have had wonderful times with the Lord there... The last time I was there, it was on my birthday, and I "ended" my day out by attending mass at St. Louis Cathedral. It was a lovely day, just me and Jesus...



lindamarie

I believe meditation is a very personal thing. It is God's way of us having time to think about our relationship with God. Because it is, what is in our heart and our head that God hears and not neccesarily what we speak. This is the time we can go over our business with God. Our wish list, our sins, our hopes. This is what meditation is for me.

I think meditation is personal, too, Ira. But I wonder how some of you find time to meditate... Praying seems "easier" -- it seems more like "talking", I think, as opposed to "listening"... (at least in my mind)...



I'm already getting up early to exercise... and staying up late to "undwind"... Is meditating just another item to place on our "to-do lists"?



lindamarie

Hi LindaMarie, I find my quiet time, (meditation), while i'm driving to work in the morning and on my way home. I listen to christian radio and talk with the Lord. In my busy day, that starts at 6am, this is my time alone with God. It works for me, and gives me time to have my relationship with our Father in heaven.



God bless you

I know what you're saying, Ira... God is with us wherever we are... and since the psalmist talks about "meditating on His word day and night", what you describe must, in fact, be meditating...



But I'm looking for a way to appropriate something more "private" than when I'm doing "something else"...



Meditating with the Lord while I'm in the car (and saying that's all there is to meditating) seems a bit to me like my hubbie & me calling a ride to work together "a date"...



lindamarie

Hi Mary !



Did you all study a book or was it something someone put together?



I am reading some interesting things on meditation... and have some ideas myself...



Did your study get any more specific than the generalities of Bible reading and prayer?



lindamarie

I've heard of that book, Ron. Maybe I'll see if I can get it at the library...



Do you have a set time when you meditate or just when you feel like it?



lindamarie

I used to be the first one up at my house, but I've recently married and dear hubby is up at the crack of dawn without an alarm! (It's just as well, I'm not a morning person & quite often I'd fall asleep during my devotional time anyway... )



I'm looking for creative ways to change my schedule so I can have a bit more "alone" time... but so far haven't done anything but snatch an hour or so here and there...



In the past, I've used some creative ways to "meditate" as well... some to do with "the arts"... and nature... and even chores...



As you say, it's a shame we often equate the word "meditation" with new-agey stuff and oriental philosophies... I think, like the sabbath, meditation was intended for our good.



Just curious -- what "type" of church do you attend?



lindamarie

Thank you, Ron...



My library doesn't have it, but I requested it from interlibrary loan... I should hear something in a week or two...



Are you reading it now? And how goes it?



My daughter & I are planning to go to AZ in June -- hopefully there will be time to have a special time of exploring the Bible, praying and meditating while we're there...



lindamarie

From the book of Joshua and the use of the word meditate in the first chapter, comes an interesting interpretation; It has the same sense of chewing or masticating on the word ;the way a cow does when she eats her food.

She takes it in and then brings it up to chew it again and repeats the process until the portion of food is totally dissolved in her system.

The word you take should dissolve or be consumed in your system.

Karl Strader former Pastor Of Carpentar's home in Lakeland used this form of study in his Bible times and so far in his life he has gone through the Bible 60+ times and never memorized a verse but can literally quote chapters of the Bible because of this slow study method and incorporating it into himself.

From the book of Joshua and the use of the word meditate in the first chapter, comes an interesting interpretation; It has the same sense of chewing or masticating on the word ;the way a cow does when she eats her food.

She takes it in and then brings it up to chew it again and repeats the process until the portion of food is totally dissolved in her system.

The word you take should dissolve or be consumed in your system.

Karl Strader former Pastor Of Carpentar's home in Lakeland used this form of study in his Bible times and so far in his life he has gone through the Bible 60+ times and never memorized a verse but can literally quote chapters of the Bible because of this slow study method and incorporating it into himself.

Wouldn't it be wonderful to learn the Bible that way?



There are verses I have memorized and there are verses that I know from reading over and over... The Holy Sprit brings those (and others) to mind as needed.



It seems meditation would be a wonderful method of "renewing our minds"...



lindamarie

It sounds like you're really struggling to adjust to your new church, Ron. How long has your wife attended there -- and how long have the 2 of you been married? I've been amazed at how long it takes to adjust to something new (and it's tougher as I get older )



It seems that meditation would be a valuable tool for your personal life right now -- as well as a venue for your call to prayer...



Any small groups at your new church?



lindamarie

My current husband & I will celebrate our 2nd anniversary in May... We went through a lot of adjusting in the 1st year -- which sort of amazed me, since I've worked for him since 1989...



My 1st husband died in 1996... and I left "our" church in 1999 (which is another story) and began attending church with my current husband (we had just begun dating)...



But back to the subject: I didn't know anything about meditation at the time -- and sort of used journaling as a meditative/contemplative tool...



And, of course, God was faithful.



The last few years have been "full" -- but I am really looking forward to a quiet time of growth in the Lord... hence, my questions about meditation...

Hi Lindamarie:

Did you happen to get that (or other) books from the library? And, if so, how is it?



For me, consistency is difficult to achieve.....something about already having more things to do than hours to do them in.



While in general I agree with Chris, I personally have reservations about TM, mostly becaue of the 'initiation' ceremony, complete with overtly Hindu acts, like bringing an 'offering' to offer, and the idea of chanting a 'mantra' in Hindu, selected by someone else, with no idea of who/what you're extolling in doing so.



Herbert Bensen (I believe) wrote a book titled 'the relaxation response' in which he took the essence of TM out of the religious, Hindu framework, and created a 'secular' practice that achieved measurably identical physiological results as TM....just without the overt Hinduism.



People decry 'eastern' anything without discernment. We read some book by some 'cult expert', and just buy their opinions without thought. Often, they have abolutely no experience with what they're writing about......they've taken their opinion from some other 'cult expert's' book.



Interesting that many of the monks (and nuns too) of the medieval and renaissance period practiced various forms of 'meditation'.......and had very similar experiences as did Taoist and even Buddhist monks in their meditation.



What inherently is 'bad' about quietening the overactive conscious mind? (what the Chinese call 'monkey mind', since it skips and jumps all over the place) What makes it threatening?

What makes sitting (or kneeling, or laying) quietly, and focussing or concentrating on one's 'breath' inherently 'eastern'? Isn't the cycle of 'breath' universal to all living things? No religious connotation at all.....just a point of focus.



What is inherently bad about 'looking within'? Where is it that the Holy Spirit of God is said to reside? Didn't Jesus say that both He and His Father would come and abide with us? Where? Invisibly somewhere in the room? Or within? Is there then any surprise that if we, as Christians, quieten ourselves so we 'might' hear that 'still, small voice', that we can actually 'hear' God? Within ourselves?



Just some thoughts and questions.

Blessings,

This is awful, but I can't remember if I got "God of Surprises" or not... in fact, it might be sitting at the house.



The last week or so has been "crazy"... one funeral and another coming... lots of travel...



I did get a book called "Sabbath" -- and for whatever reason, that book really fit in with the taking time with God I so desire...



And the "breathing exercises" make sense physiologically, too...



The journey is interesting... that's about all I can say now. But at least I'm not alone. My Savior never leaves or forsakes.