The all-in-one Christian Web Site Community - Praize.com
Skip to Content

You've come a long way but, is it what God wants for your life?

(Page 1 of 2)
Quote Reply
You've come a long way but, is it what God wants for your life?
Harriet Beecher Stowe was one of thirteen children. The oldest member of the family was Catherine Beecher, she was the oldest of the thirteen. She was one of nine children by her mother and there were four other children born to a step-mother whom her father married after her mother had died. Catherine Beecher particularly grew up having a natural love for children. She found great joy in the duties of raising children. She loved to care for infants. She loved to care for little children. When Catherine was only 16, and all of the rest of the children born to the mother, nine of them, were younger than she was, her mother died. So she was left really to mother eight other little children. Her mother had been very skilled in domestic hand craft and spent a great amount of time teaching Catherine how to take care of the home. And so she was quite good at that by the age of 16. Into the home came an aunt and the aunt was to be the replacement for mother. And the aunt was remarkable for her neatness and her order and her ability to deal with things on an economical basis. Later on, she was replaced by a step-mother who was expert in all matters of administration in the home. Under them all, Catherine--with experience and the tutelage of these women--by the age of 23 had learned all that was to be learned about domestic life and decided that the state of women in the United States was so severe that she needed to do something very dramatic to train women for domestic responsibility.
So, she founded the Hartfort Female Seminary, the design of which was to train women to be lovers of their husband, lovers of their children and keepers at home. She and her sister, Harriet Beecher Stowe, not only founded the Hartfort Women Seminary but a couple of years later they founded the same thing in Cincinnati, Ohio with the view to training women for domestic responsibility. At that same time, around 1869, they wrote a book entitled The American Woman's Home. Let me read you just a little of it. "Women's calling embraces the care and nursing of babies in those critical periods of infancy and sickness--the training of the minds of children in the most impressionable years of life, childhood. It involves the matter of meeting the needs of her husband so that his life is enriched and his home a haven. It involves the responsibilities of the economy of the house for the benefit of family and all others who grace it. These duties are as sacred and demanding as any given to man. Yet, where is her preparation? And what body certifies her as duly prepared to give the best to her calling?" End quote. As a result of that desire to give to women training so that they could be capable at their domestic responsibility, they founded the two seminaries and they wrote this as their purpose, "The purpose is to teach women how not only to perform in the most approved manner all the manual employments of domestic life, but to honor and enjoy them."

What would happen if this was done today?
Quote Reply
Re: [allencombs884] You've come a long way but, is it what God wants for your life? In reply to
Hi Allen:

Q. What would happen if this was done today?

It depends what you mean by this I suppose.

A. Society as we now know it would probably fall apart in bloody revolution.

It strikes me that perhaps The Taliban might think it a good idea though, if by this you mean turning the clock back to domestic arrangements 19th century style.

Mary Sumner (31 December 1828 – 11 August 1921) was the founder of the Mothers' Union, a worldwide Anglican women's organisation. She is commemorated in a number of provinces of the Anglican Communion on 9 August.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sumner

Mary Sumner did much the same thing over here. Conditions generally were very different then, from now. Many infants and mothers died in childbirth, many more died shortly after. The domestic situation was totally different then to what it is now. Career expectations for women were very limited indeed and slavery had only recently been suppressed. (1862, the USA and UK signed a treaty to abolish slavery worldwide). So I don’t think comparisons between todays situation and then are very helpful in postulating reasons for the parlous state of domesticity in the USA and UK today.

The point I would make though is that every age and both genders of humanity could always do with gaining more knowledge and wisdom when it comes to living with one another and getting the most out of life. I don’t think one sex is ‘failing’ more than the other on the domestic front. If anything it is probably the unreconstructed ‘male’ that needs to ‘catch up with the times’ rather than the undomesticated ‘female’ that needs to ‘get back to the kitchen’ though.

One can hardly overestimate the social impact of Mary Sumner’s and Harriet Beecher Stowe’s work though, (and that was in the field of ‘education’, not specifically in the field of domestic efficiency). We now have women in science, religion, medicine and all other important professions. I take that as a really good thing and certainly don’t hark back to the ‘bad old days’ when these outlets for female talent were barred to them by the gender prejudice oppression of men.

Regards Chris.
Love covers a multitude of sins. 1 Pet.4:8b.

Last edited by:

rdrcofe: Jun 25, 2014, 10:58 AM
Quote Reply
Re: [rdrcofe] You've come a long way but, is it what God wants for your life? In reply to
 
One can hardly overestimate the social impact of Mary Sumner’s and Harriet Beecher Stowe’s work though, (and that was in the field of ‘education’, not specifically in the field of domestic efficiency). We now have women in science, religion, medicine and all other important professions. I take that as a really good thing and certainly don’t hark back to the ‘bad old days’ when these outlets for female talent were barred to them by the gender prejudice oppression of men.

This is an interesting topic that Allen has broached in light of today's world. I know that I would have benefited by attending a school that taught domestic skills. So few women these days know how to be mothers or wives. I'm sure it saddens the Father (although we know from Proverbs 31 that He does approve of women having businesses). One should not cause elimination of the other. If Abba says that women can do both then they should be able to do both.


The point I would make though is that every age and both genders of humanity could always do with gaining more knowledge and wisdom when it comes to living with one another and getting the most out of life. I don’t think one sex is ‘failing’ more than the other on the domestic front. If anything it is probably the unreconstructed ‘male’ that needs to ‘catch up with the times’ rather than the undomesticated ‘female’ that needs to ‘get back to the kitchen’ though.

I totally agree with this, Chris. We cannot condemn one sex without condemning the other. The Bible is full of stories where women had their own businesses. (Prov. 31 is a good example) But both sexes have gone off the highway of care for family and home. No question about that. Sometimes it is not even lack of knowledge or wisdom, but simple laziness or selfishness.
Blessings ~ Sarah
Quote Reply
Re: [praizeop2] You've come a long way but, is it what God wants for your life? In reply to
Hello all.

For all our advancement, the one skill necessary to the optimum survival of our species is the one most often maligned...that of homemaker. When the nest is a disaster and in chaos, there is no secure shelter in which to rear the young or soothe those who venture forth as breadwinners at the end of the day. If no adult is in control of the care of the home in all manner, then there is no safe haven.

And..I certainly do not mean it is a woman's place, nor do I mean that a safe haven must adhere to Victorian standards. It is not even necessarily a job for one adult only, but I think that makes it harder to achieve. Instead of "The Woman Worthwhile" let us have "the parent worthwhile." So, Allen, while I agree with the importance of keeping the home, I don't agree that only women must take on the task.

But what do I know? I should accept that my Federal Government knows better than I. They are the experts who should feed my family, educate my children, secure my financial future, monitor my health, choose my housing and my means of transportation and my employment, and manage my elder years. Why should I worry myself about anything at all?

We have placed our future and our children's and grand-children's future in the hands of the State. We have placed the family in peril by making it unnecessary.

If we could turn the clock back and recapture individual responsibility as the form that duty to ones family would take, I believe there could be a revival of the type of sanity that yielded up great people with great ideas and great eras. Instead, I believe, we face our future peopled with ignorant and apathetic children led by those who control absolutely.

At least until ...the tide turns again.

-Jeanne
"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
Quote Reply
Re: [rdrcofe] You've come a long way but, is it what God wants for your life? In reply to
Sarah basically said exactly what I was thinking about your post., Chris. I can only add (as Jeanne did) that parenting is a skill that both men and women need training in and from a Biblical perspective. When I ran across this information I thought about Paul's words in Titus, The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
Tit 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
Tit 2:5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Here at home, I often help with the housework and whatever else is needed to do. Domesticate chores can be shared but, our children are all grown now.
Quote Reply
Re: [jeanne53] You've come a long way but, is it what God wants for your life? In reply to
Hello Jeanne,

Quote:
So, Allen, while I agree with the importance of keeping the home, I don't agree that only women must take on the task.

I can agree easily that both should share the duties. Even then, there are some things my wife refuses to let me do. I generally care for the pets, clean floors and the bathroom and take out the trash etc. She is very 'picky' about her kitchen though and I don't go beyond what she allows me to do there.

When we first met 15 years ago though,she was a stay at home mom. She has told me often how much she appreciated being able to be there for her children when they needed her. They are all grown now but, they have kids of their own that we love and see whenever possible.

Quote:
But what do I know? I should accept that my Federal Government knows better than I. They are the experts who should feed my family, educate my children, secure my financial future, monitor my health, choose my housing and my means of transportation and my employment, and manage my elder years. Why should I worry myself about anything at all?

I take that as sarcasm. Obama and his team want to destroy the USA and remove all control of parents. Our freedoms are being taken away and socialism is on the rise. I recently heard that Obama made a request that he be allowed to pass any law or veto any law by executive order alone. The case went to the Supreme Court and their answer was unanimous. They told him, "H___ no!"
Quote Reply
Re: [allencombs884] You've come a long way but, is it what God wants for your life? In reply to
Hi Allen. Yes...sarcasm, it was.

The family and nurturing children within a family unit is under attack as never before. Whether one accepts Biblical teachings or not, the family is the best place to rear children...but that is pooh-poohed by our current administration because of disparate outcome. Some families are not nurturing, some parents are not good role models and some children fail in public school, in their community and in eventually in life.

But instead of raising the bar for those parents, whose poor behavior has only been rewarded by Progressive policies, they must tear down the parents' who have been producing successful children in nurturing families. To do so, they must attack those parents and remove parental control and destroy the idea that one person...the most nurturing one...must make child-rearing and home-making a priority over everything else. That very idea has long been under attack making a woman feel unworthy of her sex should she decide to be a stay at home mother.

And...it isn't just in our country where this has happened. I was reading the latest "Imprimis" today by Anthony Daniels, whose article was so startling to me that I thought he was an ancient man who practiced medicine half a century ago in Britain, so I had to check the beginning of the article to see when he practiced...and it is within the last decade. This followed up an article by "The Weekly Standard" on the "Great Society", which helped make me aware that this pattern of family destruction follows the great lie of Socialism and comes with wealth re-distribution, which offers what becomes entitlements for those who choose not to work, not to become educated and not to be responsible for their offspring or themselves. All with "good intentions" of course.

What they "preach" goes against all reason and common sense...as well as the teachings of more than just the Christian scripture. So...I agree that it follows a decline in religious belief and faith in a Creator Deity, which more often than not, is a requirement for moral living.

In my opinion, children are lost unless a loving adult family member takes on the responsibility of rearing them, making their care and their home a priority. In my opinion, to birth a child and not take that responsibility on is the most immoral act a parent can do.

I accept that not every parent can fulfill that act, that some are unlucky enough to have no close family adults who can do it or can help do it, that some must work to survive, and that some do not care to do it. But those choices were made long before that child was conceived and they were the wrong choices, which led to the abandonment of parental duty. I believe those choices were made poorly because children are no longer considered the responsibility of the adults who conceived them. The rich always had the choice for someone else do the nurturing and homemaking, but now everybody can rely upon the government if they choose. And...for pity's sake, so many people believe what the government wants them to believe. So...as long as the toilets flush and the kids get picked up by the school bus, the parents are left to live the life they want to live, free of child-rearing...and nobody cares enough to bother to vote for those who will control their lives or their children's lives.

And...these people who seek to control are most happy to provide for those who will function as conditioned workers. In this country there are those who work and those who do not work, those who are responsible for themselves and those who refuse to be responsible and are enabled by our government to be such. Providing for those who need help for a while or who will need help forever is not what is destroying us. Providing everything for everyone who doesn't take personal responsibility to make half-way decent choices in life is what is going on, such that, some make no choices at all, but leave all up to those who would control them.

Okay...rant over for now. It is enough to drive a person into a hermit-like existence!

-Jeanne
"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."

Last edited by:

jeanne53: Jul 1, 2014, 4:41 PM
Quote Reply
Re: [jeanne53] You've come a long way but, is it what God wants for your life? In reply to
Not much generalization going on there then Jeanne. SmileLaugh.

What do you think of the song I like in thread 'The wonder of love and the power of grace'?

Hope it cheers you up a bit.

Regards Chris.
Love covers a multitude of sins. 1 Pet.4:8b.
Quote Reply
Re: [rdrcofe] You've come a long way but, is it what God wants for your life? In reply to
Hi Chris. I can be cheerful enough when I do not pay attention to much of what is going on in my country, in Europe, in the Middle East and only focus on my life and my family. I cannot, however, ignore for long the state of public education, of rampant welfare growth, of unemployment, of open borders, of abdication of personal responsibility seen in many families and of this administrations head-long rush to rule by elite few aided by compliant corporations. Our President wishes to act as a dictator and entitlements only aid that cause, with fools urging him on to "just go ahead and do it...act without Congress."

Our inner cities have long consisted of ruined families and social structures due to Progressive policies and the cancer has been spreading outward rapidly for the past decade...and not just because of Barrack Obama, but George Bush had a hand in the mess we find ourselves in, as well as other Progressive Republicans who seek a larger central government and do not want to lose control either of the power they have. But it all started with Woodrow Wilson, who favored such a ruling elite over controlled citizenry.

If it is the case of 40 or 30 percent of family and personal conditions and attitudes, how can it be a generalization? Abdication of responsibility doesn't even have anything to do with social status or financial status. Any parent who considers their careers and their life goals to be their priority and looks to the government to take care of the children, as well as, themselves with healthcare, retirement planning, home purchases, student loan bail-outs, elder care, and the daily functions of their own community is abdicating their duty to their family, their lives and their community.

It is apathy formed through entitlements. It is the desire for "me" fulfillment over duty to family. If egos are so large that they cannot sacrifice some time for parenting, for rearing children to whenever they can handle themselves well with minimal parental involvement, then the "me" should not add children to their lives. I know you see it in the UK....large percentage of births to single women, generations of families relying on social benefits with nobody in the family ever working, men absent from the home, more and more qualifying for disability that are not truly disabled, areas that are blighted, schools that are losing control and government trying to contain a ballooning budget and battle unemployment.

And...apathy about the duty to take part in selecting leaders.

It takes a while to bring a country to such a state under a democratic form of government and it will take a while to change the course or maybe America will just wither and die. How is the UK doing to alter their course of socialist notions and open immigration policies?

Oh well... all of this is, of course, only the view from where I stand and observe my town, my county, my state and my country. As you say, a lot of generalization, no doubt. And...it is so funny. So funny that most of us just are not laughing anymore, but crying.

-Jeanne

p.s. I am sorry that this in in Womens Ministries. Women have been traditionally the nurturers, those who keep the home and those who set a moral tone for the family...even if they yield to a husband's final say. We know who really sets the tone. How the mother lives and acts is how the tone of the family and home becomes and only a foolish person would insist that is not so. That a few women do not choose this duty does not mean that women were not made to be the nurturers and the homemakers. That a few women find this duty to be odious to them, neither makes this "generalized" statement incorrect. That a few men actually thrive as homemakers and child rearers does not alter biology. Those who choose to not be mothers and the guiding force of the home, don't have to do so anymore...and, perhaps should not do so. But...to opt out and allow a government entity to rear children and to abdicate all responsibility to family is not the answer. Taking parental duty seriously is more important than being free to be the "me" always desired, that person is not having a baby to be a parent, but to add to the "look at me" attitude of the ego.

So...my opinion only. I think it is an important discussion for women to have.
"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
Quote Reply
Re: [jeanne53] You've come a long way but, is it what God wants for your life? In reply to
Again I find myself agreeing with you Jeanne. It is socialism and dictatorship that we are heading for. I recently read a post where it said that
immigrants loved the UJK because of the welcome and handouts received. It also said that they hated their flag, Why? The majority of immigrants are Muslim and have dedicated to dominate the world in the name of Allah,

The same is happening here and our Muslim President has been classified in the polls as the worst president ever. Who was the best? Ronald Regan.

By the way, women can work. I think the evidence of that is found in Proverbs 31.

God bless,
Allen
Quote Reply
Re: [jeanne53] You've come a long way but, is it what God wants for your life? In reply to
Hi Jeanne:

How is the UK doing to alter their course of socialist notions and open immigration policies?

Well, having inherited the economic disaster which came upon us like a Tsunami from Wall St in your good ol USA we are struggling to balance the books 4 years after the economic shenanigans of the previous administration (Labour) over here. So we have austerity, a tightening of the belt and ‘shoulder to the wheel’. The economy is looking just slightly healthier but the Tories are a difficult bunch to work with. We, you might not be aware, have a coalition government at the moment between Conservative and Liberal Democrat, (that means two parties actually get together and agree that some things must be done). So ‘Socialist’ we are not at the moment. We are not, (as a nation), particularly fond of the way the EU is run and would very much like to reform it at least, or even leave it altogether if reform is not possible. (I think that it might be economic suicide to leave it though. It would be a bit like Pennsylvania pulling out of the Union and deciding to go it alone).

Immigration is an issue over here because the EU has a policy that member countries should allow workers free access to jobs. This principle works both ways though and quite a lot of British Subjects do quite well working in other EU countries. I expect there exists much the same principle in the USA between states. I don’t think there are restrictions on moving from one state of the union to another in order to find work in the USA, are there? As for ‘immigration’ I thought that was restricted to ‘foreigners’ in the USA half a century ago, unless holding a valid work permit. I was under the impression that what made America great was its open immigration policy. You know, Statue of Liberty and all that.

The USA has always had ‘problems’ with newly arrived ‘incomers’. It’s nothing new. Our problem though is that we are not a huge continent like the USA, we are just a small island with limited space. Even then though, legal immigrants bring a great deal of benefit to the nation and the economy as a whole and we are in fact a nation of immigrants, Britons, Romans, Jutes, Angles, Saxons, Danes, Norse, French, Jews, West Indians. We even have a few Americans over here who by and large quite like the place once they get used to the narrow bendy roads system, smaller cars and political diversity. Laugh(Not just right wing party or further right wing party). What we need are stronger powers to detain and expel the less desirable, (dare I say), even criminal elements who seem to be able to ‘set up shop’ here with relative impunity.

They say we get what the USA gets, but 10 years later. And New Zealand is 10 years behind us. From what you say about the USA going to the dogs, I rather hope we don’t ever catch up with you in some things. Ya all just celebrated ‘Independence Day’ over there last week. You should remember that ‘independence’ has a price, (as any teenager leaving home discovers when he has to pay his own rent and utility bills). Your nation has a history of rebellion, (what teenager doesn’t rebel, even against the most benign of parenting), but sooner or later the rebel has to take on responsibilities and stop blaming its parents for all its misfortunes. America is still ‘growing up’ yet, when it comes to national maturity. Over here we have tried every kind of Government, Monarchy and Dictatorship and found them all less than perfect, (and we admit it). We feel that what we have now is merely the best on offer, not necessarily ‘the best’. When you Americans stop thinking that all your troubles will be over if only you can put a different man in the Oval Office and lurch even further to the ‘right’, then things might improve over there. What is needed, it would seem is a liberal dose of Deteronomy 10:18He executes justice for the fatherless and widow, and loves the stranger in giving him food and clothing. Therefore love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt’. Stop complaining about ‘welfare scroungers’ and remember that you are a nation of ‘immigrants’. Apart from the Sioux, Iroquois, Apache, Cherokee, Shawnee etc. who don’t seem to have been given much of a say in the so called, ’Land of the Free’. Your founding fathers talked loudly of ‘Freedom’ but themselves continued to keep slaves. Your rebellion was inspired more by the desire of a few wealthy landowners to avoid paying taxes, (thus becoming even wealthier), than by a virtuous desire for the freedom of others.

A little honest ‘realism’ goes a long way to helping one to get a proper perspective on ‘the state of the nation’. From where I am though, I really can’t believe that the present incumbent to the Oval Office is even partly responsible for the mess your nation seems to be in. If anything the mess is being caused by those who pose the most knee jerk and adamant opposition to even his most reasonable policies. Think what you like, Obama is regarded by those outside the USA as being by and large a fairly reasonable and intelligent man. Unlike his predecessor.

There, that's better now I've had a good rant! Cheer up girl, things are never quite as bad as they seem, until they actually are. Then it's too late to worry. FrownSmileLaugh

Regards Chris.
Love covers a multitude of sins. 1 Pet.4:8b.
Quote Reply
Re: [jeanne53] You've come a long way but, is it what God wants for your life? In reply to
Jeanne, I have moved this thread to General Apologetics so that you can discuss what you want to discuss.
Blessings ~ Sarah
Quote Reply
Re: [rdrcofe] You've come a long way but, is it what God wants for your life? In reply to
Chris, your post is really refreshing... but you have NO IDEA how bad things are here! Minor children without parents are being brought into our southern states by the airplane load! First by bus loads and now by plane loads!!! Unbelievable! What are we to do with them? And that is only one issue. I don't talk about politics because of my position, but this president has gone beneath and beyond anything you can imagine.

Keep posting though! You make me smile. :)
Blessings ~ Sarah
Quote Reply
Re: [rdrcofe] You've come a long way but, is it what God wants for your life? In reply to
Wow, Chris! Quite a bit to respond to and, since it may be that you are not even aware of some of the serious problems in your own country and are drunk on the Kool-Aid from the Obama-ga-ga media, I am not sure any amount of expounding on either would help you better understand what is occurring here on all fronts that will soon eliminate the entire idea of the USA and its Constitutional Republic...unless Progressivism or Liberal Fascism (so named by Jonah Goldburg) can be halted and reversed.

It should be noted by you and others that once the USA is eliminated as an influential country in global economics, global stabilization, global charity, global policing and protection and global enlightenment and innovation....uh, well... What powerfully influencing country would assume that position?

But our elimination is exactly what the UN and other totalitarian wanna-be regimes and individuals have always wanted. So...how to go about it? Very, very slowly, so that the Americans do not realize what is happening to them until...poof!..America is gone. And, even our friends across the big pond will look up and be amazed that while they were doing so well, America just stopped being able to be America.

I will boil much of the tactics down to one phrase and maybe it will become more clear....OVERWHELM THE SYSTEM UNTIL IT COLLAPSES.

The whole system... on all fronts... from the family to the branches of government, from our thoughts to our Bill of Rights, from our beliefs to the health of our bodies and from our labor to the defense of our country.

What was good is bad, what was right is wrong, what was up is down, what was black is white. "Collapse the system...top down, bottom up and inside out." The radical now believes in the Constitution. The radical now believes in The Bill of Rights. The radical now believes in God. The radical now believes in the family. The radical now believes in the laws of this country.

It is no longer American to believe in all of that.

"We got trouble right here in River City." "that once there was a spot for one brief shining moment..."

I like this quote better:

RESIST, SURRENDER IS FUTILE

Ta ta, wish you well, and all that. Well..maybe it isn't all that bad... At least the internet is still truly free. LaughLaughLaugh

-Jeanne
"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."

Last edited by:

jeanne53: Jul 8, 2014, 5:13 PM
Quote Reply
Re: [praizeop2] You've come a long way but, is it what God wants for your life? In reply to
Thanks Sarah, I was worried about what it was becoming in the other forum.

I heard today on the news that the numbers are closing in on 250,000 illegally being deposited at the border since January. This is the result of the regime ignoring the rule of law concerning immigration, along with the granting of amnesty to all minor children that are currently in our country illegally. In fact, it was Congress that voted a few years ago to fully secure the borders what ever it took and Obama who recently told a real whopper when he said it was fully secured according to that law. NOT!

Like putting up a billboard saying just drop them off and they will be given citizenship...oh wait...that is what they have done in those countries in which the drug cartels are running this lucrative business. Billboards and tv ads and radio messages and flyers and church services. For 5 to 8 thousand bucks, drug cartels will take your child and bus them one way or another to the US border and leave them there. Sick kids...no problem, the US will treat them. So these children have TB and scabies among other illnesses, are starved, dehydrated, scared and often abused. Plus...while the system is overwhelmed... GO,GO,GO...send in the gangs, send in the Islamists, send in any sort of person looking to get into the country to commit terror in all its myriad forms.

Ya gotta love the plan! So perfect and the Americans are such dupes!

And our President, Barrack Hussain Obama, sent the invitation and opened the doors.

I don't think anybody much is paying attention to what this regime has been doing to this country. Here and there somebody will speak up and get called a "conspiracy theorist" but mostly folks in other countries haven't a clue. Until...it impacts them.

-Jeanne
"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
Quote Reply
Re: [rdrcofe] You've come a long way but, is it what God wants for your life? In reply to
BTW, Chris...

Lots of people from various countries immigrate to the USA all the time and are welcomed all over the country.

There are 12 to 20 million ILLEGAL immigrants living in the USA currently. Nobody knows the real number..because they are ILLEGALLY here. But...all their children are now citizens. Isn't that nice.

Our ILLEGAL immigrants can get a drivers license, food stamps, free health care, public schooling, scholarships, public housing and their college bound can get in-state tuition. Our officers of the law may not ask for proof of citizenship when arresting a suspected ILLEGAL immigrant when he or she commits a crime. Our schools may not ask, either. If citizens react to any ILLEGAL status, they are called racists and just mean people who hate immigrants...but who, especially hate our mixed-race or Black president.

The truth is that most people have little to fault most ILLEGAL immigrants who live among them and are willing to allow them a "path to citizenship" but want our President to obey the laws of the land by securing our borders before granting any sort of amnesty.

Too bad for those who seek to LEGALLY immigrate to the USA...so silly to do that. Sort of like it is too bad for all those silly college graduates who worked hard to pay off any student debt or made choices that were less costly for their education or worked hard while attending college to pay as they went. If they had just waited a bit, President Obama would have forgiven their college debt after ten years, too. Let me see...it is 10% of ones income for 20 years in private work or 10% of ones income in 10 years of public work (government work, including school teachers). So foolish of all of us to work hard and/or limit ourselves to financially viable choices for our college educations.

So...you are German? Take a trip to Mexico, dude! Slip across and join everybody else. They won't even suspect a thing. Amnesty is coming, so send all your children over first, then they can legally reconnect their family to America! It is great!
"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
Quote Reply
Re: [jeanne53] You've come a long way but, is it what God wants for your life? In reply to
Jeanne, in the Book of Revelation (no, it is NOT RevelationS) in the Bible, no mention is made of the USA. The reason for this is that in the period of time that this Book is referring to (the future), the USA is no longer a major power. So, one could say that things are progressing according to prophecy.

Jeanne, if nothing else convinces you of the validity of the Bible, just watch as the Book of Revelation unfolds. You might want to get yourself a Bible if you don't have one and see how the world is lining up with what is written in Revelation. With your interest in history today (is that an oxymoron?), you might be especially interested in reading what the Bible says about it.

Thank you for being here. Your posts are awesome!
Blessings ~ Sarah
Quote Reply
Re: [praizeop2] You've come a long way but, is it what God wants for your life? In reply to
Hi Sarah.

I am sure it would be interesting to compare Revelations to this century's chaos. Hasn't it also been compared to the chaotic times of other centuries?

BTW..concerning ILLEGAL immigration; the border states of the USA have been experiencing what can only be called a slow invasion turning some districts into near total representations of foreign countries. What these states have experienced is far, far worse than the drops in the puddle that represents those states farther north. This immigration is the first, wherein many people do not seek to assimilate, but to form enclaves of their own countries.

I know you know that, Sarah, just making up for some statements I made in an earlier post.

-Jeanne
"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
Quote Reply
Re: [jeanne53] You've come a long way but, is it what God wants for your life? In reply to
Wow, Chris! Quite a bit to respond to and, since it may be that you are not even aware of some of the serious problems in your own country and are drunk on the Kool-Aid from the Obama-ga-ga media, I am not sure any amount of expounding on either would help you better understand what is occurring here on all fronts that will soon eliminate the entire idea of the USA and its Constitutional Republic...unless Progressivism or Liberal Fascism (so named by Jonah Goldburg) can be halted and reversed.

‘it may be that you are not even aware of some of the serious problems in your own country’

Of course I don’t know everything which goes on over here. Who does? I quite deliberately ignore what Fox ‘News’ would like me to believe though, I never watch it, (on principle and on purpose). I think though that I have a better idea of the situation in my own back yard than either you or Fox News might allow for.

I live here! I should know!

I don’t entirely believe everything disseminated by the BBC let alone Fox News or Al Jazira, but I do move about the place and word gets about still through the grape vine. And as for the right wing press, its style of journalism, (not to mention its rough texture), renders most news papers not even fit for threading on a string for use in the loo, (before ever reading them).

It should be noted by you and others that once the USA is eliminated as an influential country in global economics, global stabilisation, global charity, global policing and protection and global enlightenment and innovation....uh, well... What powerfully influencing country would assume that position?

It would seem that China is making great efforts to ‘out USA’ the USA in all the areas you mention, including the areas of Crime and Global Pollution. I guess though that if that time bomb under Yellowstone National Park decides to blow, (and it seems the clock is ticking), we can expect the USA to enter the stone age any time now, (and the rest of us shortly after), so it might be advisable to make as many friends as possible before becoming immigrants of other countries yourselves. “And I tell you, make friends for yourselves by means of unrighteous mammon, so that when it fails they may receive you into the eternal habitations”. Luke 16:9.

The USA is one of the richest nations on earth, but can’t or more like won’t, even offer basic health care for its people, let alone help some unfortunates up the social ladder in a dog eat dog economy where the Devil takes the hindmost, and no one gives a _ _ _ _ for the unfortunates who live across the tracks on the wrong side of town or in the trailer park. (It must be their own fault because in ‘The Land of The Free’, everyone has been given the constitutional right to the ‘pursuit of happiness’,) but often, it seems, at others expense.

Big problem is though that ‘happiness’ seems to object to being ‘pursued’ and rather like a butterfly sometimes chooses to rest gently on the shoulders of those who peacefully and patiently make least effort to ‘capture it’. So happiness is not a thing to be grabbed at or hoarded. The more it is shared, the more you have of it.

You are right though about Government. It is not Governments responsibility to make people ‘happy’. It is the Governments responsibility to provide protection from enemies outside and within the nation. i.e. national defence, suppression of crime and a fair distribution of wealth aimed at the welfare of the nation AS A WHOLE. Governments should provide a just framework within which each of its citizens can use their talents to support themselves, their families and communities. If this is being done, all will be well. If not, all will go to the dogs.

It looks to me, from over here, as if there is a sort of collective ‘paranoia’ going on in the USA. Many looking for a political ‘saviour’ to rescue them from what is effectively, (and should be admittedly), the results of their own past political choices. Others console themselves by shifting blame for it all onto the 'opposition', if it is a mess, it is a ‘Democratic Mess’ in a Republic, rather than a ‘Republican Mess’ in a Democracy. I think it is not the politicians who are making the mess over there. It is all the people who continually vote for them without demanding a viable alternative to the two right wing parties who dominate the political scene and treat the electorate as dumb voting fodder, to be swayed and manipulated by those who can spend the most hard cash on their electoral campaign. (Voters being seen as just annoyingly 'hanging chads'), preventing 'professional politicians getting straight back into office with free 'safe' seats on a wonderfully lucrative political gravy train.

Sort out your unrepresentative political and electoral system, the rest will then solve itself with a bit of thought and cooperation all round.

Regards Chris.
Love covers a multitude of sins. 1 Pet.4:8b.
Quote Reply
Re: [rdrcofe] You've come a long way but, is it what God wants for your life? In reply to
http://news.yahoo.com/...et-it-061118699.html

Chris, here is a short video by Katie Couric that can give you and others a better understanding of the immigration issues here in the states.
Blessings ~ Sarah
Quote Reply
Re: [praizeop2] You've come a long way but, is it what God wants for your life? In reply to
Hi Sarah:

"Now I get it".

Seems to me a multi pronged response is required, including better border security and more foreign aid to the countries whose social problems and pressures are generating this migration. What is being done by the USA to help bring the USA's neighbours up to speed economically? It would be in your nations own interest to do so. Turning beggars into 'customers' requires a particularly foresighted investment. Nobody chooses to export their children unless they are utterly desperate. Enable the parents to make a living where they are now and make it clear that their chosen solution at the present moment is unacceptable and must stop. In the mean time I see the scale of the problem and suspect it will need some astute lateral thinking by the powers that be to find a humanitarian solution to it.

Regards Chris.

Regards Chris.
Love covers a multitude of sins. 1 Pet.4:8b.
Quote Reply
Re: [jeanne53] You've come a long way but, is it what God wants for your life? In reply to
Excellent post Jeanne!

The primary intent of the post was to show what is taking place in this country. The foundation of a nation is the family. When it fails, the nation falls apart. Our children are our future and they need the love and care that parents can give them.

I may have mentioned this earlier but, my wife of 15 years was sexually abused by an uncle at the age of 5. She was taken from her mother's home and raised by an aunt and uncle because of the physical abuse going on there. Then, she married a man who was heavy into drugs, beat her and went so far as to steal the Christmas presents from their four children to pawn for money to buy drugs.

When I met her he had kidnapped them and had taken them to Texas. She and I met while working at the same Convenience Store and she was given time off to go get them after one of the children managed to get to a phone and call them. I willingly allowed her the opportunity to stay at home with the children (all grown now) and showed them and her that I loved all of them and wanted the best I could provide them.

Her 'husband' was spoken of to the kids one time. I told them that, if he ever showed up at my front door, I would put a bullet between his eyes. With that settled, I've not mentioned him since. I did pass word to him about the warning but, that was done through the police department after he sent me a warning by putting a bullet in the front seat of my car. Was I wrong. No. It is a man's responsibility to provide for and to protect his family.

Allowing her to stay at home is something I have been thanked for several times. She had the opportunity to deal with the emotional impact that they needed help recover from. How did I relate to them?

At first there was lots of uneasiness. Then, one day, her youngest son asked to talk to me in private. We took a walk and he said, "I know I've given you a hard time in a lot of ways. I also know that you want a life with mom. The one other thing I know is that you do far more than you have to do for all of us and, I want to thank you and ask you to forgive me." Then we shook hands.

God truly blessed me in this and I trust that I was and am a blessing to all of them.
Quote Reply
Re: [rdrcofe] You've come a long way but, is it what God wants for your life? In reply to
Hello Chris,

Here in the USA, there is a process to go through for immigration and, finally to become a citizen. Currently, there are as many as 200 children per day crossing the border between Texas and Mexico. Some are with adults and some of those crossing have criminal records back home.

Our 'President" refuses to do anything to prevent it. Instead, he is now on vacation. He by passes Congress to impose his agenda and, honestly, lies continually to the American public. He is destroying this country one step at a time and after all this time in office, still blames the previous administration for the problems.
Quote Reply
Re: [jeanne53] You've come a long way but, is it what God wants for your life? In reply to
Your numbers are right on about the illegals coming in Jeanne. I do have one question for you:

Recently a military helicopter flew into American territory and fired at our border patrol. There is no doubt that the military there works in conjunction with the drug cartels. My opinion is that this should be declared an act of war and that we should retaliate by putting their military bases out of business, What do you think?
Quote Reply
Re: [jeanne53] You've come a long way but, is it what God wants for your life? In reply to
Jeanne, thank you for participating in this forum. I appreciate your knowledge of current events.


I am sure it would be interesting to compare Revelations to this century's chaos. Hasn't it also been compared to the chaotic times of other centuries?



People have tried to make society fit into the book of Revelation in previous times, but it didn't work because not all of the Biblical prophesies had been fulfilled. The scripture says something like "after all these things have taken place..." (Chris or Allen could probably explain it better) The Bible is not a hit-or-miss type of book. It is very specific in what it says and what it means. Certain world events had to take place before the book of Revelation could happen. That is why it is called "Revelation". It reveals what happens at the end... after certain other events have happened. Now... in this day and time... all the previous events have taken place. Nothing else needs to happen before the events outlined in Revelation can take place. I really wish you would read it because I would SOOOO love to have your outlook on it according to the world today. I'm not asking you to "read the Bible"...:) I'm just asking you to read the book of Revelation, just like you would read any other interesting news article.

Here is where you can read or listen to it on line: http://legacy.biblegateway.com/...n+1&version=NASB
That is the first chapter. If you want to read more (recommended), click on the > at the bottom of the page. I'm not trying to convert you... I already know how you feel about that (!)... but I do believe your reading of that book (just like any other book) would broaden your knowledge and give you more perspective. It kind of remindes me of Ayn Rand and "Atlas Shrugged"! :)
Blessings ~ Sarah