http://www.praize.com/forums/ en-us no-reply@praize.com Thu, 23 May 2013 17:43:19 GMT Gossamer Forum by Gossamer Threads, Inc. http://www.rssboard.org/rss-specification http://www.praize.com/forum/icons/gforum-logo.png http://www.praize.com/forums/ 50 50 http://www.praize.com/forums/Apologetics_C2/Christian_Debates_F17/Re%3A_%5Bevangelist-1%5D_30_Scriptural_warnings_to_Christians_about_losing_eternal_life!_P119376/?page=unread#119376 And your point is??? ;) After all, you posted in a Debates forum. Blessings ~ Sarah 37e72c50ba88749f3e01bead126253f6 May 23, 2013, 10:32 AM http://www.praize.com/forums/Apologetics_C2/Christian_Debates_F17/30_Scriptural_warnings_to_Christians_about_losing_eternal_life!_P119375/?page=unread#119375 Matt 6:15 • Forgive men’s sins against you, or God will not forgive your sins against Him. Matt 10:39 • He who loses his old sinful life for Jesus sake will find eternal life. Matt 13:3-8,18-23 • 2 examples of coming to life, and then returning to the lost state. Matt 16:24-26 • Deny (lose) your old sinful life and follow Jesus to find eternal life. Matt 18:21-35 • Not forgiving others causes God to revoke His forgiving us. Mark 11:25-26 • If you do not forgive everyone, Father God will not forgive your sins. John 12:25 • He who hates his life in this world will keep his life for eternity. Rom 8:13 • Follow the Spirit and put to death the works of the flesh to gain eternal life. Rom 11:20-22 • By faith, continue in God’s goodness & fear, otherwise you will be cut off. 1 Cor 6:9-10 • People committing these sins will not inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Cor 15:2 • You are saved, if you hold fast to the word, unless you believed in vain. 2 Cor 7:10 • Godly sorrow leads Christians to repent, leading to salvation. 2 Cor 13:5 • Examine yourself to see if you are in the faith, unless you are disqualified. Gal 5:1-4 • It is possible for a Christian to be estranged from Christ and fall from grace. Gal 5:19-21 • Believers who practice such sins will not inherit the kingdom of God. Gal 6:7-8 • Sowing to the flesh reaps corruption; sowing to the Spirit reaps eternal life. Eph 5:3-6 • Disobedient believers committing such sins will incur the wrath of God. Col 3:5-6 • Disobedient believers committing such sins will incur the wrath of God. 1 Tim 5:11-12 • Some believers are condemed because they have cast off their first faith. Heb 2:1-4 • How shall we escape, if we drift away and neglect so great a salvation? Heb 3:14 • Partakers of Christ hold the beginning of their confidence steadfast to the end. Heb 6:4-8 • Those partakers of the Holy Spirit who fall away will be rejected and burned. Heb 10:26-27 • Believers who sin willfully can expect God’s fiery judgment. Heb 10:36-39 • Endure in the faith, and do not be like those who draw back to perdition. Heb 12:14 • Pursue holiness, without which no one will see the Lord. 1 Pet 1:8-9 • Believing, you will receive the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 2 Pet 1:10-11 • Be diligent to make your call and election sure, gaining the kingdom. 2 Pet 2:20-22 • A believer who returns to his sins is worse off than he was before. Rev 2-3 • All 7 churches are warned to repent and be overcomers to be: given the crown of life, clothed in white garments, a pillar in the temple of God, not hurt by the second death, etc. Rev 21:7-8 • People committing these sins will go into the lake of fire (the second death). Rev 21:27 • People committing these sins will not enter the New Jerusalem. Rev 22:14-15 • People committing these sins will not enter the New Jerusalem. Romans (the 6th NT book), chapter 6, verse 6 “… our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.” 21c22b521e63701e7607fad59a00c0d0 May 22, 2013, 5:53 PM http://www.praize.com/forums/Apologetics_C2/Christian_Debates_F17/Re%3A_%5Bchaplainbob%5D_Are_all_born-again_Christians_part_of_God%92s_elect%3F_P119374/?page=unread#119374 I have kind of a different thought on this scripture. I wonder if the "drawing" that the Lord does isn't during a particular period of time in a person's live when he/she is ready and open to Jesus knocking at the door. It seems that it would be a huge waste of time and effort for the Lord to be "drawing" when a person is happy in his sin. Usually people come when they reach the bottom of themselves. So, to me, it isn't so much WHOM He draws, but when. Blessings ~ Sarah 7305aeb72c81bf56df4bd70183fb67de May 22, 2013, 5:34 PM http://www.praize.com/forums/Apologetics_C2/Christian_Debates_F17/Re%3A_%5Bsojourner%5D_Are_all_born-again_Christians_part_of_God%92s_elect%3F_P119372/?page=unread#119372 God (the Holy Spirit) draws everyone to Him. Some choose to accept the "invitation" some do not. 2c91edb1e38ee41fd6369847cae29d6f May 22, 2013, 4:47 AM http://www.praize.com/forums/Apologetics_C2/Christian_Debates_F17/Re%3A_%5Bchaplainbob%5D_Are_all_born-again_Christians_part_of_God%92s_elect%3F_P119371/?page=unread#119371 chaplainbob wrote: God saves those who choose to turn to Him." And....WHO 'chooses' to turn to Him? Quote: Quote:" Joh_6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. Joh_6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." Seems to me...that no one can even 'choose' to 'turn to Him'.....UNLESS the Father 'draw' (Greek..meaning literally to drag) him. Quote: Quote:"He does not choose to save certain people and let others go to Hell." Seems to me you're playing a semantic word game here. IF one CAN'T come to Him unless the Father draw/drag him, then obviously the Father makes a conscious choice as to just WHO He 'draws' to Jesus, doesn't He? Quote: Quote:"If that were the case then Jesus was in error in giving the great commission." Not really.....since HE knows who will come to Him (ALL those who the Father has given to Him), but WE DO NOT, hence the 'commission'....to preach the gospel. Blessings, 2ab429e71db107ffb4db4bf99238a14f May 20, 2013, 8:36 PM http://www.praize.com/forums/Apologetics_C2/Buhddism_Debate_F7/Re%3A_%5Bcraigdressler%5D_Reincarnation%3F_P119338/?page=unread#119338 Thank you for pointing out my mistake. While I was writing the above, I was think of adding Jesus' words: "No person comes to the father except through me." As for there being no sin in heaven, I believe the Bible makes clear that for those who make Jesus their Savior and Lord and, as a result, get into heaven, that will be the case. Like Jesus after he was resurrected, those in heaven will be given a glorified body that is no longer subject to temptation and sin. Craig Dressler http://christianbook2.webs.com/ 493a6e4dac0414a722583b8b83889c36 May 7, 2013, 9:19 AM http://www.praize.com/forums/Apologetics_C2/Christian_Debates_F17/Re%3A_%5Brdrcofe%5D_Just_how_infinite_and_unconditional_is_God's_love%3F_P119330/?page=unread#119330 The human race is totally and completely detestable in God’s eyes due to their inherited sin nature … just look around you! But, in His love, grace appeared … for some to gain Heaven to be with Him. I’ve debated this quite a bit … and IMO, before the foundation of the earth, God elected some humans from all tribes, ethnic groups, nations, etc. to be His. But, having free-will, these ones may choose to reject the free gift of grace-faith, and also later choose to refuse to co-operate with the Holy Spirit during the necessary sanctification process unto some semblance of holiness and perfection! Yes, the BAC is first postionally sanctified (set apart) and sealed/marked to be worked on. Well, here’s enough to keep you occupied for the rest of the year! df2064c7e3ccd560a054251c1e6469e7 May 5, 2013, 9:45 AM http://www.praize.com/forums/Apologetics_C2/Christian_Debates_F17/Re%3A_%5Brdrcofe%5D_Just_how_infinite_and_unconditional_is_God's_love%3F_P119329/?page=unread#119329 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. God commends his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. So according to these words, is/was God's love limited only to those who are 'saved' or is it preexistent to our 'acceptance' of Christ as Lord and Saviour and therefore extended to all unconditionally? 8be8c1343095ade5a5b2fd02e641bb4f May 5, 2013, 6:29 AM http://www.praize.com/forums/Apologetics_C2/Christian_Debates_F17/Re%3A_%5Brdrcofe%5D_Just_how_infinite_and_unconditional_is_God's_love%3F_P119326/?page=unread#119326 It is withheld from those who reject Christ as Lord and Savior. They face His wrath and an eternity in the Lake of fire. One passage that might go with this thread easily is found in Romans 9:13, "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." The word hated there literally means to detest. In verse 15 of the same chapter we are told, " For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." 4c71748b4312d7075e6c4bbb4015cc4a May 4, 2013, 5:50 PM http://www.praize.com/forums/Apologetics_C2/Christian_Debates_F17/Just_how_infinite_and_unconditional_is_God's_love%3F_P119325/?page=unread#119325 We hear a lot about God's love when we sing hymns and songs and read the scriptures. We are told by scripture that God is love himself and only those who love can know God. As if that is God's most prevalent characteristic. His defining feature. If we do a search on 'love' in the KJV we get 280 hits, most of which refer to God's love for us or our love for God, in one way or another. Many of which require of us that we 'Love the Lord our God' or that we 'love' our neighbour etc. We are required by God, (mere mortals as we are), to forgive our brother, sister, neighbour, enemy, 70 times 7 times a day. If God can require that of US what must HE be capable of ? Where do you think God's love has it's limit? At what point do you think it comes to an end? And from whom do you think it is withheld and why? 145ec47dd50e2296beaf354b45ee4410 May 4, 2013, 2:19 PM http://www.praize.com/forums/Apologetics_C2/Buhddism_Debate_F7/Re%3A_%5Bcraigdressler%5D_Reincarnation%3F_P119311/?page=unread#119311 HI Craig And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. Heb 9:27-28. It wasn’t actually Jesus who said this, it was the author of Hebrews in the New Testament. It looks to me as if it goes on to say that those who seek The Life, The Way and The Truth, in this life, (perhaps never having heard the Gospel for one reason or another), will see him again in the next, without their sins, and therefore ‘saved’. How do you read it? a49b2e4d933472727635eb09f402c416 May 2, 2013, 12:57 PM http://www.praize.com/forums/Apologetics_C2/Buhddism_Debate_F7/Reincarnation%3F_P119308/?page=unread#119308 One of the basic tenents of Buddhism is reincarnation, the idea we live multiple lives on the earth and may even return as an animal. Is there truth to this belief? According to the Bible the answer is no. Jesus declared in the New Testament: "It is appointed once for a person to die and after that the judgement." In other words, we only get one time around here on earth. In addition, Buddhism has no answer for sin and judgement before God. Our good works will never make us holy enough to get into heaven. Only Jesus' death on the cross and the blood he shed for our sins, and our faith in that fact will create our bridge into heaven. There is no other path to heaven. Craig Dressler http://christianbook2.webs.com/ 81315d8bc9ae6a87f8dd2f19df653795 May 2, 2013, 10:54 AM http://www.praize.com/forums/Apologetics_C2/Christian_Debates_F17/Re%3A_%5Bevangelist-1%5D_Sorry%2C_but_the_LORD_does_not_change!_P119287/?page=unread#119287 I knew I should have removed those posts. Sorry. Blessings ~ Sarah cb37742e7e7e3510cc8d7df2fea9bc10 Apr 30, 2013, 11:26 AM http://www.praize.com/forums/Apologetics_C2/Christian_Debates_F17/The_simple_truth_about_God%92s_Plan_for_us_to_get_to_heaven__P119283/?page=unread#119283 The truth of the gospel (and its’ related doctrines) MUST be simple … because God has declared that His people are primarily simple, poor, humble, repentant folks! None of God’s saving truths are revealed through intellect, education, reasoning, etc. because this would go against what God has said about His people. First, Jesus declares that we must be born again (from above, spiritually) … … if we are to see the kingdom of God, i.e. be part of His kingdom here and in heaven. God’s simple declaratives, such as John 3:16, simply say that … whoever believes in Jesus should not perish but have everlasting life. Let us assume that this is enough to cause the true believer to be born again, and most Christians think this means the Holy Spirit has entered the person: John 14:16-17 “He (Father God) will give you another (of the same kind) Helper , that He may abide with you forever — the Spirit of truth, whom the (unsaved) world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you .” And this “Helper” teaches the believer (through the Spirit): John 14:26, John 16:13-14 “… the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things …” “… when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth ; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears (from the Throne) He will speak … He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.” “Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His … But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you .” (Romans 8:9-11) But, the KEY to everything is … “For as many as are being led by the Spirit of God , these are sons of God.” (Romans 8:14) Initially, God sanctified us (set us apart) … we were sealed (marked) as those who were going to be “worked on”, i.e. sanctified by the precious Holy Spirit. Yes, it’s a process, as in … “those who are being sanctified” (Hebrews 2:11 and 10:14) BUT … man has free will, and is fully able to reject this and refuse to co-operate! BUT … those who are sanctified successfully will inherit eternal life! Yes, those who are being led (i.e. those who are following) the precious Holy Spirit will be taught what it is that the Lord requires of them, such as: “Pursue holiness, without which no one will see the Lord” (Hebrews 12:14) “… as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy” ” (1 Peter 1:15-16) “… present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service” (Romans 12:1) “… to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight, if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel” (Colossians 1:22-23) “But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life” (Romans 6:22) “Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect” (Matthew 5:48) “… that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish” (Ephesians 5:27) “But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete” (James 1:4) There are literally dozens of warning verses written to the churches … warnings that they could lose eternal life … if they do wrong things instead of right things! But, IMO, the main purpose for us having the Holy Spirit … is so He can lead us through the sanctification process unto obedience, holiness, perfection, and eternal life! 636cdfd018a8d9e1a5e6d4058fb38c95 Apr 29, 2013, 2:23 PM http://www.praize.com/forums/Apologetics_C2/Christian_Debates_F17/Re%3A_%5Bsojourner%5D_Sorry%2C_but_the_LORD_does_not_change!_P119282/?page=unread#119282 sojourner wrote: evangelist-1 wrote: Quote:" Quote:" Yes, you've got it ... we take turns writing for each other, and it usually depends on how we got out of bed that day." Are you speaking of two different human beings....with different bodies....or....two 'personalities/persons' in ONE body? just wondering..... No, I was speaking of a joke! 812af3c789d6dadccb8a431861f43b2e Apr 29, 2013, 2:16 PM http://www.praize.com/forums/Apologetics_C2/Christian_Debates_F17/Re%3A_%5Bevangelist-1%5D_Sorry%2C_but_the_LORD_does_not_change!_P119273/?page=unread#119273 evangelist-1 wrote: Quote:" Quote:" Yes, you've got it ... we take turns writing for each other, and it usually depends on how we got out of bed that day." Are you speaking of two different human beings....with different bodies....or....two 'personalities/persons' in ONE body? just wondering..... Blessings, 89e97e77384995d719d91a4460348661 Apr 27, 2013, 7:12 PM http://www.praize.com/forums/Apologetics_C2/Christian_Debates_F17/Re%3A_%5Bchaplainbob%5D_Sorry%2C_but_the_LORD_does_not_change!_P119272/?page=unread#119272 chaplainbob wrote: Quote:"I just have a problem with those who state that the possession of those gifts and Power is evidence of or essential for salvation." Well....IF it's being done by the power of the Holy Spirit....and not a 'deceiving spirit'...then I'd say it IS 'evidence' that one is indwelt by the Spirit, and thus, in a way, 'evidence of salvation'. HOWEVER, that being said....it is a horse of entirely a different colour to claim that such manifestation is REQUIRED for salvation. I don't know of too many groups that hold such a position...the last ones I encountered was more than 20 years ago and was the United Pentecostals (Oneness), although even then, I had dealings with, and fellowship with a chaplain in prison who was of that denomination, and he was open and welcoming...accepting me as a 'brother in Christ'. Blessings, c06a016869c636e1a7d4a311047d589e Apr 27, 2013, 6:51 PM http://www.praize.com/forums/Apologetics_C2/Atheist_Debate_F137/Re%3A_%5Bjeanne53%5D_I_like_Penn_Jilette._P119235/?page=unread#119235 Are you familiar with the term Immaculate Conception? Read the following but note when the doctrine was inyroduced into Catholicism. This represents a change in the doctrine of the church and yet, it still is the Roman Catholic Church, "In the Constitution "Ineffabilis Deus" of December 8, 1854, Pius IX pronounced and defined that the Blessed Virgin Mary "in the first instant of her conception, by a singular privilege and grace granted by God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin" (Denzinger, "Enchiridion", 10th ed., n. 1641). The subject of this immunity from original sin is the person of Mary at the moment of the creation of her soul and its infusion into her body. The term conception does not mean the active or generative conception by her parents. Her body was formed in the womb of the mother, and the father had the usual share in its formation. The question does not concern the immaculateness of the generative activity of her parents. Neither does it concern the passive conception absolutely and simply ( conceptio seminis, carnis, inchoata ), which, according to the order of nature, precedes the infusion of the rational soul. The person is truly conceived when the soul is created and infused into the body. Mary was preserved exempt from all stain of original sin at the first moment of her animation, and sanctifying grace was given to her before sin could have taken effect in her soul. The formal active essence of original sin was not removed from her soul, as it is removed from others by baptism; it was excluded, it never was in her soul. Simultaneously with the exclusion of sin, the state of original sanctity, innocence, and justice, as opposed to original sin, was conferred upon her, by which gift every stain and fault, all depraved emotions, passions, and debilities, essentially pertaining to original sin, were excluded. But she was not made exempt from the temporal penalties of Adam—from sorrow, bodily infirmities, and death. The immunity from original sin was given to Mary by a singular exemption from a universal law through the same merits of Christ, by which other men are cleansed from sin by baptism. Mary needed the redeeming Savior to obtain this exemption, and to be delivered from the universal necessity and debt ( debitum ) of being subject to original sin. The person of Mary, in consequence of her origin from Adam, should have been subject to sin, but, being the new Eve who was to be the mother of the new Adam, she was, by the eternal counsel of God and by the merits of Christ, withdrawn from the general law of original sin. Her redemption was the very masterpiece of Christ's redeeming wisdom. He is a greater redeemer who pays the debt that it may not be incurred, than he who pays after it has fallen on the debtor (Ullathorne, "Immac. Conception", p. 89). Such is the meaning of the term "Immaculate Conception". (http://oce.catholic.c /index.php?title=Immaculate_Conception) Catholic doctrine can change without the church losing it's authority or place. 09f2baf662a515cd726681bf425ac2c8 Apr 17, 2013, 8:56 PM http://www.praize.com/forums/Apologetics_C2/Misc_Religion_Debate_F9/Only_One_Way_To_Heaven%3F_P119229/?page=unread#119229 Jesus said: "No man(person) comes to the Father(God) except through me." In that statement Jesus makes quite clear that there is only one way to heaven, not multitudes of ways. Only faith in what Jesus did on the cross to take away our sins can give us the hope of heaven. God created one door into heaven, and Jesus is that door. Craig Dressler http://christianbook2.webs.com/ 9c9317a41eab8a907d7be99fbf4a6d4d Apr 17, 2013, 9:44 AM http://www.praize.com/forums/Apologetics_C2/Christian_Debates_F17/Re%3A_%5Bgloriousdays%5D_Sorry%2C_but_the_LORD_does_not_change!_P119215/?page=unread#119215 Members: here is the short response I IM'd to "gloriousdays": Short answer is YES. YOU can post anything YOU have written under YOUR name. Ghost writers don't count here. My only caution is don't make it too long. Remember, Forums is a conversation between you and others. I will be removing the last several posts later today in hopes that we can get back to the subject of the OP. God bless you all and thank you for your patience. Sunday, April 28... well, I didn't remove them, and am now not so inclined, so they will stay. Thank you all for your patience with me. Blessings ~ Sarah 64eba24693b19d81549f100672b0573e Apr 15, 2013, 8:18 AM