The all-in-one Christian Web Site Community - Praize.com
Skip to Content

BILLIONS vs THOUSANDS

(Page 1 of 3)
Quote Reply
BILLIONS vs THOUSANDS
Okay guys, here's a doozy for ya! Unless you've been living in a cave in recent times, you'd be aware that the great planet MARS is at present closer to Earth since it was some SIXTY THOUSAND YEARS AGO... well, the problem with that is this: exactly how long has the earth been in existence?? Genesis 1 tells us that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth and the sun and the moon and the stars and all the other planets at the same time (apparently), and that the earth itself was created in SIX LITERAL DAYS, with God resting on the seventh. Different viewpoints of evolution suggest that the six days of creation were spread over a thousand years per day - I'd prefer to believe that than billions of years per day. You'll have probably heard of Bishop Usher who, in the 1800s, suggested that the Earth was created at 9am on some day in October in the year 4004 BC - he worked this out from the Bible. Your scientists will happily have us believe that everything began with a HUMUNGOUS BANG some 450 billion or so years ago!!!



As usual, I'm taking forever to get to the point... sighhhh



Ok, so when I was in year 12 at Carmel Adventist College in Perth, Australia, back in 1990, my biology teacher told us that our church, which traditionally believes that the earth is 6000 years old, was starting to lean more towards 10,000 years - that was then, but I don't know now. I personally prefer to believe in the latter than the former, but this is where we have to take a HUGE leap of FAITH! Yes, ok, perhaps it has been a significant amount of time since Mars was last so close to Earth, BUT: do u believe that 60,000 can fit in with this timeframe, or 10,000 years, or sometime in the last 6000 years???????? To my mind, this is about as much a mystery as to how the dinosaurs died out (they couldn't fit on Noah's ark?), where the cavepeople fit in to the Bible history of mankind AND the biggie of all biggies, HOW was God created and when and how long was He there by Himself before He created everything???????



Thanking you for your input
Quote Reply
BILLIONS vs THOUSANDS In reply to
Quote from the evelution of a creationist



The gravitational fields of the sun and the stars pull cosmic dust toward them. This is known as the Ponyting-Robertson effect. Our sun is estimated to suck in about 100,000 tons of cosmic dust every day. An old sun should have "pulled in" and destroyed all the particles in our solar system. Yet, our solar system is full of these particlel! The Ponyting-Robertson effect would demand a sun and solar system of less then 10,000 years of age. Petersen states:



all stars have a gravitational field and pull in particles like gas, dust and meteors within their range. Stars radiating energy 100,000 times faster than our sun have a sprialing effect, pulling things in all the faster. The unusual thing is that O and B stars are observed to have huge dust clouds surrounding them. If they were very old at all, every particle in close range would have been pulled in by now.
Quote Reply
BILLIONS vs THOUSANDS In reply to
carbon dating is not accurate here is why



1. you have to assume that there is no contamination of the rock that you are carbon dating because any contamination would alter the dating technique and give an erroneous date. so therefor you would need a closed system which is ideal concept convenient for analysis, but non-existent in the real world.



2. you have to assume that the system initially contained none of its daughter component. in order to calculate the age of our rock specimen, for example, there can be no lead in the original rock. Obviously, no one can know how much lead was there to begin with.



3. we must assume that we have a constant decay rate. Process rate(Speed at which the mother element breaks down into the daughter element) if this has ever changed since the rock was formed, then the change of rate of decay would have to be corrected for the age calculation to be accurate. Sientist now know that process rates can be altered by various factors. ie. radiation and X-rays



so i say stick to the facts and not the assumptions of some desperate sientists who do not want to admit that they have no proof that anything evolved. if they were to admit that it would change the way this world views science and it would also damage their credibility. they are so desperate infact that they would resort to nothing less then outright lying and going so far as to manipulate the facts to make them look like they are on the right track.
Quote Reply
BILLIONS vs THOUSANDS In reply to
i would recomend the book



THE EVOLUTION OF A CREATIONIST

by Jobe Martin, D.M.D., ThM.



he also gives other resorces in his book so you can check out the facts.
Quote Reply
BILLIONS vs THOUSANDS In reply to
I suppose I should qualify what I'm saying here - I personally believe in the Biblical view of Creation, it's just that science keeps attacking my faith!!!!!
Quote Reply
BILLIONS vs THOUSANDS In reply to
don't take everything scientist say to heart. i don't put much faith in them. stick to the word of God and you will be just fine.
Quote Reply
Re: BILLIONS vs THOUSANDS In reply to
 

Kick back, relax, enjoy life. I've come to realize that there are just plain going to be things that I have to ask God about when I join Him, so why be bothered or be stressed by anything?



A great example: A few months ago, I was really trying to figure out the trinity. I gave up, figuring it'd be one of those things that I'd understand when I got to heaven, that I'd be like, "Duh!" Last week, at Bible study, a friend of mine handed me an article about quantum mechanics/computing, which explained how a single unit can have multiple values. I got my "D'uh" a little early.



The fact is, time is an earthly thing. I have no idea how God created the Earth. All I know is that He is outside time. Like trees, etc., it's something that was created just for us. And how do we know if we're measuring time in the same way that the Old Testament describes? We're reading pages that were directly inspired by God, and mayhap, as humans, we can't "get" what He was talking about. (I majored in French, so I'm pretty comfortable saying that maybe the translation was a bit off.)
Quote Reply
Re: BILLIONS vs THOUSANDS In reply to
Ever heard of Dr. Kent Hovind? He has a lot of information (scientific) that will help strengthen your belief of the biblical creation. He’s really great and I’ve learned so much since I first began watching his videos. Go to the following website: http://www.drdino.com/. I think you’ll enjoy it! God Bless!
Quote Reply
Re: BILLIONS vs THOUSANDS In reply to
Science doesn't keep attacking your faith. And if you have a KJV (1611 AV) then your bible has not once in three hundred years changed regaurdless of so called science. Many new bible insert the gap theory and switch things around for today: the KJV has never bended even though the world changed.



Science does not attack your faith:

EVOLUTIONIST AND YOUR TAX DOLLARS attack your faith. Evolution is not science, that is where the big confusion comes in: cause when you raise a generation that has been told billions of years for 20 years of education they believe it.
Quote Reply
Re: BILLIONS vs THOUSANDS In reply to
I believe in the biblical account of Creation. I also believe that the earth is closer to 6,000 years old than 10,000. There are several 'geological clocks' that all point to an age of about six thousand years. But certainly, not more than 10,000.



For instance, the moon is moving away from the earth at a rate of two inches a year. So, only two billion years ago, the earth and the moon would be touching. And, if the earth is 5 billion years old, the moon should be out of sight by now.



Another clock is the sun. The sun is shrinking approx. 5 feet an hour...if the sun had existed twenty million years ago, it would be touching earth. And only 100,000 years ago, the sun would have been double it's present diameter. Life on earth would have been completely impossible even a million years ago.



There are many other geological clocks but I've only got time right now to mention those two.
Quote Reply
Re: BILLIONS vs THOUSANDS In reply to
Oh yeah, one thing I forgot.



You said "To my mind, this is about as much a mystery as to how the dinosaurs died out (they couldn't fit on Noah's ark?), " First of all. . .God made all the animals. God told Noah how to build the ark. God told Noah to put at least two of every kind of animal on the entire earth on the ark. Do you think God would have told Noah to build the ark smaller than it needed to be? Why would God have told Noah to put all those animals on the ark if he knew there wasn't gonna be enought room for them?



I think that the dinosaurs died out because they couldn't find enough food to eat. Before the flood, everyone and everything was a vegetarian. There were plenty of plants, the whole earth was warm and almost tropical, so all the dinosaurs that had to eat 4-5 tons of food a day had plenty of food. The reason the earth was so universally warm, is that there was a heavy water vapor in the atmosphere, acting as a canopy, not letting any rain or storms or cold or wind onto earth, resulting in a moderate warm climate prevailing from pole to pole, just like in a greenhouse, and a continual growing season.

However, during the flood the gates of heaven were opened, and the water vapor rained down onto the earth, and the water destroyed everything, all the plants included. So, after the dinosaurs got off the ark, they couldn't enough food, and although some of them developed a taste for meat and lived longer than the plant eaters, the humans killed the meateaters to protect their familys and herds.
Quote Reply
Re: BILLIONS vs THOUSANDS In reply to
adventistrock:



Do you believe that GOD is a supernatural being? IF you do, then why is it so hard to believe that GOD created the heavens and the earth, just like he said that he did?



Do you believe that GOD parted the Red Sea or believe that it is a fairytale, like some suggest? IF you do, then why is it so hard to believe that GOD created the heavens and the earth, just like he said that he did?



The WORD of GOD says that GOD is a Spirit, do you believe that?

Quote Reply
Re: BILLIONS vs THOUSANDS In reply to
One more thing:



Now if GOD is able to part the Red Sea, as he said that he did in his Word, surely it did NOT take him thousands of years to do that.



If he had, Moses and the Jews would have surely perished that day, for they did not have time to wait a thousand years.



The point is, "God is not a man that he should lie." If GOD said it then he did it. But of course, you would have to believe in a supernatural Almighty GOD capable of anything, except lying.



Quote Reply
Re: BILLIONS vs THOUSANDS In reply to
I agree that God is not bound by the time that governs the earth, but is it possible for another time to exist? I have been questioning this subject for a while. Stephen Hawking makes it very clear that time is effected by the distance to a gravitational force (i.e.- the further you are from a gravitational source the slower the effects of time). The Bible, on many accounts explains that God has a history. This could be a history in relation to the earth, but that still connotates a relationship to time. The fact that God speaks could subject Him to time. If one thinks about the act of speaking, it requires time. Is He in another time or does He eternally do all the actions from the creation of the universe to the end of eternity?
Quote Reply
Re: BILLIONS vs THOUSANDS In reply to
did you know that Reptiles do not have built-in growth inhibiting factors like other animals and man. the dinosaurs would have continued growing as long as they lived. and we know from reading Genesis that things lived a lot longer before the flood. could you imagine a crocodile living say 1,000 years. my brother saw a picture of a crocodile that had a recorded length of 50 feet. and reptiles function best, as cold-blooded animals, in warm temperature climates. in the pre flood atmosphere with lush vegetation to eat and nothing to eat them. they would have grown to enormouse sises.



if you believe in creation then you can not believe in millions of years. evelutionist need millions of years to make their theory fit together. but God does not need millions of years. he created everything in 6 litteral days.



take a look at the population growth just in the last few hundred years. and look at how society is degrading morally. then try fitting that into millions of years. evelutionist can do it because they put man on the earth only a few thousand years ago. but if you believe in creation then you know that everything was created at the same time during the creation week and not millions of years apart.



creation scientist do not place the earth older than about 10,000 years old. i agree with them.
Quote Reply
Re: BILLIONS vs THOUSANDS In reply to
All the animals and plants (and maybe people too) seem to have been giants before the flood. Fossils and impressions and stuff have shown, dragonflies (today,their wings span four inches or so) with wings up to three feet across. And some cockroaches were as much as a foot long! Coiled shellfish today grow up to about eight inches across, but fossilized specimens are displayed in museums that measure over five feet across. The hornless rhinocerus was about eighteen feet high and nearly thirty feet long. Mosses grew two or three feet in height instead of just an inch or so as they do today.
Quote Reply
Re: BILLIONS vs THOUSANDS In reply to
To whoever it was that mentioned the KJV and how it's not changed since 1611 - get updated mate, it's the 21st Century for goodness' sake!!
Quote Reply
Re: BILLIONS vs THOUSANDS In reply to
heyy i got something for ya, its pretty interesting,, i always wondered about the dinosaurs and fossils that were older than 6000 yrs too... ITS A LONGG teaching but ill give you the answer i found..



in Peter he says that we are awaiting the third heaven and earth, he says that the first one was completely destroyed and the one we are on now is preserved until the day of fire...So what we can take from that is that we are on the second earth (not that there were 3 different ones, but three diff. time periods)

ok..now lets go to genesis 1...IN the beginning God created the heaven and the earth...AND THE EARTH (ok Stop!) figure of speech, he repeated himself twice, now we gotta focus,, It says the earth was without form and void...

Isaih, im sorry i dont have my bible right next to me,, says that God did not create the earth formless and void



Therefore, the word "was" in verse two, should actually (and it usually is) be translated "became"



NOw we have a new ballgame,, The earth became formless and void, and then god put the EArth back together in 6 days..



Now watch how that fits...God and Lucifer, everything is fine, some things exist on earth, there ya go, theres room for the dinosaurs..Uh oh, the Morning Star rebels...big holy war, god wins and tosses him to earth, the only problem is that lucifer being the morning start took the source of energy away from all the living things on earth. So no problem, first thing god does is fix things "Let there be light" well this is earth two now, and since then has been 6000 yrs...we dont know how long was before, but i bet u can toss in a couple billion yrs...



ALSO, the flood with Noah is not what peter was referring to, because the word destroyed is too much...



Sorry for the sloppiness,

fellow laborer in Christ
Quote Reply
Re: BILLIONS vs THOUSANDS In reply to
heyy i got something for ya, its pretty interesting,, i always wondered about the dinosaurs and fossils that were older than 6000 yrs too... ITS A LONGG teaching but ill give you the answer i found..



in Peter he says that we are awaiting the third heaven and earth, he says that the first one was completely destroyed and the one we are on now is preserved until the day of fire...So what we can take from that is that we are on the second earth (not that there were 3 different ones, but three diff. time periods)

ok..now lets go to genesis 1...IN the beginning God created the heaven and the earth...AND THE EARTH (ok Stop!) figure of speech, he repeated himself twice, now we gotta focus,, It says the earth was without form and void...

Isaih, im sorry i dont have my bible right next to me,, says that God did not create the earth formless and void



Therefore, the word "was" in verse two, should actually (and it usually is) be translated "became"



NOw we have a new ballgame,, The earth became formless and void, and then god put the EArth back together in 6 days..



Now watch how that fits...God and Lucifer, everything is fine, some things exist on earth, there ya go, theres room for the dinosaurs..Uh oh, the Morning Star rebels...big holy war, god wins and tosses him to earth, the only problem is that lucifer being the morning start took the source of energy away from all the living things on earth. So no problem, first thing god does is fix things "Let there be light" well this is earth two now, and since then has been 6000 yrs...we dont know how long was before, but i bet u can toss in a couple billion yrs...



ALSO, the flood with Noah is not what peter was referring to, because the word destroyed is too much...



Sorry for the sloppiness,

fellow laborer in Christ

bbelcher1@babson.edu

Quote Reply
Re: BILLIONS vs THOUSANDS In reply to
Angel



You wrote:
For instance, the moon is moving away from the earth at a rate of two inches a year.




You are assuming that that rate is and has always been constant. What evidence is there that it has always been moving away at the present rate.



I very much doubt that the rate has always been constant. It is widely accepted now that the moon actually CAME from the earth after a massive collision. The molten debris collected together and formed our moon. So it WAS actually very much closer and therefore orbited much more quickly than it currently does. The slowing down effect is caused by the drag of the tidal effect on earth. Conditions on Earth were once very different than now, in fact it started out pretty well molten like its insides at the moment.



you wrote:
The sun is shrinking approx. 5 feet an hour...


The same applies here too. How do we know that the present rate of sun shrinking is constant? How do we know it always has been constant?. Answer? We don't know. It almost certainly isn't and has never been constant. So the conclusions you draw from making such unmerited assumptions are also erroneous.



It might have been a good proof though, perhaps we should keep monitoring it for another 6000 years and see how constant it is.



Love Chris.
Quote Reply
Re: BILLIONS vs THOUSANDS In reply to
FHR



you wrote:
God created the heavens and the earth in 7 calendar days


How do you know? The Bible dosn't say God made it in seven calendar days any more than God said that Adam and Eve would die if they touched the fruit of the tree in the midst of the garden.

Study it closely.

Love Chris.
Quote Reply
Re: BILLIONS vs THOUSANDS In reply to
Well...simply, our universe is not old. In fact, it is middle-aged, about half way through it's expected lifetime. Now this matter you speak of is infinite. There are millions of other galaxies aside from ours (no? check out satellite pictures of them). Is is too hard to conceive that there is a constant transferring of matter from outside sources? Is it conceivable that if your are healthy and in a room full of sick people that you could contract the sickness by airborn particles? No. Our galaxy is relativly thin. The average of the spiral features of our Milky Way is 3 parsecs (one parsec equals 3.24 lightyears). It is constantly expanding. Therefore is would be imossible to ever abosorb all the matter it contains. And this does not even include dark matter. Do you know what this is? And did you know that at the same time it is absorbed by planetary features, it is also let loose? It is all a cycle. We have never observed the cycle of "God" for we have never observed where the information was taken in and then released to the expanses of humanity(In the form of religious script) Question that which is not natural.
Quote Reply
Re: BILLIONS vs THOUSANDS In reply to
 

you wrote:

"carbon dating is not accurate here is why"



"1. you have to assume that there is no contamination of the rock that you are carbon"



"2. ...there can be no lead in the original rock"





First of all, carbon dating cannot be used on 'rock'. Carbon dating is just that...dating the carbon content. And since rock is made up of silicon and metals, and not carbon, that eliminates just about everything you posted.



But on the upside, everything you said would be true for carbon dating fossils, such as bones, wood, plant remains, animal remains, and oils, etc.







Quote Reply
Re: BILLIONS vs THOUSANDS In reply to
Hey All!



I remember watching a video in Alpha Course that pertained to this exact subject and the guy made some valid points.

- Day + number in the Bible always means an ordinary day

- evening and morning w/ day always means an ordinary day

- evening and morning w/o day always means a ordinary day.



Look at Genesis 1:5

Then read Genesis 1:8 (for the second day)

Genesis 1:13 (third day)

And so and so on.



Now there are times when the day means time. You hear people say in my day, we did such and such. We then don't mean a literal day, but time. Gen. 2:14- day means time.



However, we can say that when God created the heavens and earth he created them in 7 days. 7 days was a pattern for man to live by. God worked for 6 days and on the 7th He rested. Humans should work for 6 days on the 7th they should rest. It's kind of absurd to think that humans should work for thousands or millions of years then on the 7th they rest. No one human being lives that long.



God created the heavens and earth in 7 days... Exodus 20:11



The Bible defines itself. Even when Jesus spoke in parables He went back and deciphered the story. Some believe that it is not important to know what the beginning of the Bible means. However, it is more important than ever. When we can't accept the foundation of our belief (the Bible) then we still have doubt in God. For God is the Word... and Jesus is the Word made flesh... John 1:1-18.



Always,

Floetic
Quote Reply
Re: BILLIONS vs THOUSANDS In reply to
Um, helloooooo... God DID say Adam & Eve would die if they touched the fruit of the tree in the garden, you will find that in Genesis 2-3! And He did create the earth, etc, over six LITERAL days and rested on the seventh, hence the Sabbath. Maybe your Bible is one which omits the important things...