The Occult 3/What does the Bible say
The last posts on The Occult 2 were discussing signs from God.
The last posts on The Occult 2 were discussing signs from God.
Oct 15, 2003, 11:15 AM
User (104 posts)
Oct 15, 2003, 11:15 AM
Post #2 of 24
Views: 742
I don't understand why the messageboard got suspended. I know it's a touchy subject but I'm not sure what the violation was.
I'm inquiring because I have been delivered from occult practices and others have the right to know the truth about it.
Thanks
I'm inquiring because I have been delivered from occult practices and others have the right to know the truth about it.
Thanks
Persecution of Pagans
Historical events revolve around feud, mystery, and success. Upon studying the feudal past of our history one may find that religious conflicts, such as between Pagans and Christians, present the enigma of which religious group gained victory or deserved defeat. In such case, we shall examine the hostility between Pagans and Christians, especially Catholics, during the Middle Ages to determine the justifications of the persecutions of Pagans by the Christians through our presentations of a brief historical overview of the feud, Pagan beliefs, Pagan background, and the effects of Paganism on Catholics with the inclusion of Catholic beliefs. The Middle Ages consisted of gallantry and the prominent feudal system that ensued strengthened beliefs by the Medieval peoples, which caused movements such as the Pagan persecution. Those who found themselves belonging to a certain religious or feudal party fought to make their party the most dominant. One may find that, with the persecution of Pagans, other issues linger that can make the killings and violent acts unjustified.
There is a lot of history dealing with the fight for religious domination in the Mediterranean during the fourth through eighth centuries. We start off this time period with one system in place and finish with another. Paganism was going strong until 312 when Constantine converted to Christianity. This had an almost immediate affect on the people of his region. By 400A.D. more than half the population had converted to Christianity. In the generation to come, Theodosius, enforced harsh anti-pagan laws and ordered the destruction of the most famous Pagan temple. The trend continued in other places around the world where the pagan faith was practiced.
In Africa five years later, on a single day, Counts Gaudentius and Jovius "overthrew the temples of the false gods and broke up the images". In Rome the emperors displayed the "important and dangerous change of national religion". The time had now come that no one could deny this new "Christian empire". The Christian empire is not entirely as big as one would have you believe. Much of the writings that came out of this time are from Christian viewpoints, not because everyone was Christian, but because most of the Pagan works were destroyed in great bon fires in the town center. The Pagans also did not write as much as their foes since they did not have the money or means to write down all their sermons like the bishops in large towns. The rich and influential were mainly Christian therefore opportunities for them to get written records down increased.
Numbers in the Christian ranks grew since Christianity offered more acceptance to women and slaves. The differences were subtle, but enough. In the Christian religion slaves did not receive as many lashes, and women, though forbidden to pray to God themselves, could tell their prayers to a man and have him say it for them. Another reason many people were converted to Christianity was because during this time the absence of a central policing body allowed higher ranking officials of Christian religion to become the police. People wanted to be on the side of the authority, so they converted.
In Rome the emperor enforced harsh laws against the pagans and there were few officials who could protect them from his wrath. In fact, “He did not see it as murder if the victims did not share in his faith.” After Justinian’s death there was a short lull in the persecutions, but determined to continue the cause, the new ruler Tiberius ordered, “Seize as many of them and punish them as their impudence merited, humbling their prude and crucifying and killing them.”
Throughout Paganism has always been present. According to the dictionary the term “paganism” means “idolater” or “irreligious.” To many people a Pagan is a person who is simply not Christian, Jewish, or Muslim. In the past there were many forms of Pagans, where in current time there are the neo Pagans. With all of these aspects, it is clear that Paganism is a very broad term. However, we can examine a specific group of Pagans, those that existed during the times of Ancient Rome.
Pagans of Ancient Rome believed in many Gods. They generally worshipped the earth, sun, sky, sea, and other elements of nature. These Ancient Romans also believed that their Gods control or influence their daily lives and fates. Due to this, the Pagans spent much of their lives attempting to please their Gods. “The Romans did not create great mythologies like the Greeks did. Instead they believed that everything had a spirit” (Kelley, p.763). They also believed that each of these spirits represented good or evil and influenced their daily life. The Roman Pagans believed that they needed to keep the spirits happy by worshipping them and giving them sacrifices.
The Romans believed that there was a god for each field of expertise. There was Ceres, the goddess of agriculture and Apollo the god of the Sea. The most important of the gods was Vesta, the goddess of the family. To honor her all Pagans had a shrine of her in their home. There were also many other Gods such as Jupiter, Mars, Minerva, and Juno.
Pagans had many gods in which all were worshipped. This is where the main controversy between Pagans and Christians arose. The reason for this is because according to the Christian belief, there is one God and only one God. The Christians saw the Pagan beliefs of worshipping many Gods and worshipping idols as evil. Another difference in beliefs came in their theories of the afterlife. The Christians believed in the theory of heaven and hell. The Pagans, however, did not. They believed that a person’s spirit was reincarnated into a new body. Not necessarily the same body, but often in a completely different form. The Pagans definitely had views in which many people of today’s culture would find to be weird or different. It just happens that they lived in time when you could be persecuted for personal beliefs.
Many people perceive Pagans as witches, but there are many aspects about Pagans that other religions do not want to inform to people. Just like Christians, not all Pagans worship the exact same thing or entity. There are a variety of subcultures in Paganism; so many people do not have a full and correct image of Pagans due to the stereotyping. This stereotyping is what brought Pagans so many hardships, which still plague them today.
When people hear the word “pagan” or “witchcraft” they automatically think “Satanist”, but there is a difference. Satanists are not Pagan witches, but instead Pagans originated from Christianity. Pagans do not have any evil “God” that they worship. Pagan beliefs are different from many religions. They do not believe in a society which views people as “good” or “bad”. “Pagans do believe in life after death, which is one aspect that separates many Christians, Catholics, and many other religions from Paganism. (Paris, Ginette, p.181)”
Another difference between the Pagans and the Catholics and Christians is Pagans worship goddesses, but people that study religion know that is not entirely true. Many people do not know that Mary from the Bible is a goddess. She is the just the name Mary for the Christian religion. Also, the Pagan religion does not have a Bible, but instead they have “The Book of Shadows” (Paris, Ginette, p.72). Pagans believe temples are outside while Christians believe temples are buildings.
Along with differences other religions and Paganism have similarities. It may be because Paganism was recorded to have been around since 2 AD, even before the Christians (Smith, John Holland,p.14). To begin, neither religion believes in the sacrifice of any sort. Somehow, a rumor sprouted saying Pagans sacrificed humans. The Pagans supposedly put people in “Wicca” baskets and burned them to death. When what actually occurred was they did burn things, but they burned that weren’t anything living with a soul. They burnt hay dolls that resembled people. This rumor started way back in the past and is still attached to the stereotyping of Pagans. The people who fabricated this story hated the Pagan so spreading this rumor put many against Pagans. As other groups, Pagans thought themselves to be healers and they attended to any wounds or ailments of people (Smith, John Holland, p.103). Like any other religion Pagans believe to “harm none, including yourself”. Also, most of the Christian holidays were created as Pagan holidays.
1) Easter was named after a Pagan Goddess named Easter.
2) Winter solstice (December 21) was the first Pagan holiday. It was set up to represent the death of God.
3) One of the most famous holidays is Halloween, Hallow Eve, Day of the Deaf, which is a Christian holiday derived form the Pagan religion. It’s the day when the earth is ready for a long sleep and to renew itself. These holidays set up a cycle for all living creatures and showed how we all grow and then die. For Pagans, life does exist after death so life does not stop, it’s reborn and the cycle continues in a larger cycle circle forever.
Paganism is a religion that has it differences as any other religion, but there the church making it hard for people to truly understand the religion did not accept differences. The church hated Paganism because they didn’t accept validity of any form of worship not centered on Divinity, but on natural things such as trees. This hatred lead the church to spread lie and rumors and this religion so closely related to Christianity to be hated. What people fail to realize is when you take time to actually understand this religion we all have at least a little Pagan in us all.
As Paganism flourished during the Neolithic period, its rituals and beliefs also evolved and grew stronger ensuing anger in the Catholics and other Christians. Paganism includes various religions that are based on polytheistic beliefs or the belief in more than one God. Conflicts arose during the Middle Ages as Christians and Pagans disagreed on the several differences in rituals, differences in gods, and differences beliefs. The Medieval times brought much turmoil to various religious groups, which led to such movements as the Crusades; mainly conflicts involving Christians against other religious groups. We will specifically explore the troubled years that involved the persecution of Pagans by Christians, focusing mainly on the Catholics.
Paganism incorporates many religions, such as Witchcraft and Wicca: other religions include the Ancient Greek religion, Ancient Roman religion, and Ancient Drudism (<http://library.thinkquest.org/28111/newpage4.htm>
. Witches practicing Wicca were known for their eerie rituals that involve the sacrificing of animals. Many witch hunts were dedicated to eliminate witches who stole farm animals for sacrificial use. Stories of such witch hunts entail vicious killings of Pagans through death by burning. Pagans were placed on trials for issues that involved diabolism, Luciferianism, and acts involving the Devil.
The simple dispute of differing rituals led to the ultimate movement of eliminating more Pagans as they are thought to believe in Satan. Pagans believe in animals, gods, and deities, thus Christians and other monotheistic religions were determined to erase such a religious group that would go against what the Christians believed in . Christians during that time might have observed Pagans rituals performed in places of nature; forests, glens, and other such places are a few that are purely natural. With this in mind, Pagans have been known to practice their religions in close relation to nature, thus they believe in praising animals and some inanimate objects. Gods and goddesses are also praised in Paganism. Due to the many gods and goddesses of Pagans Catholics refused to recognize the group and seek to eliminate their polytheistic religion. Some gods and goddesses include the ancient Roman’s “Apollo, Bacchus, Ceres, Coelus, Cupid, Cybele, Diana, Hercules, Juno, Jupiter, Latona, Mars, Mercury, Minerva, Neptune, Pluto, Proserpina, Saturn, Ulysses, Venus, Vesta, and Vulcan, and less gods referred to as Dii’s include Ianus, Saturnus, Quirinus, Volturnus, Pales, Furrina, Flora, Carmenta, Pomona, Portunus, Fontanus” (<http://www.crystalinks.com/romegods.html>. The Greeks also believed in many gods and goddesses, of which some show similarities to the ancient Roman’s gods and goddesses since the Roman’s derived their religion from the Greeks.
Paganism flourished through polytheism and sacrificial rituals which incorporate the elements of nature very closely. Much of the hostility between Pagans and Christians centered around their differences in rituals, differences in gods, and differences in beliefs. Though Pagans were misunderstood during the Middle Ages, a time where people refused to understand the counterparts, persecution of Pagans should not have occurred. We have examined that Pagans do have similarities with Christians. Some aspects of Christianity directly relates to Paganism.
Historical events revolve around feud, mystery, and success. Upon studying the feudal past of our history one may find that religious conflicts, such as between Pagans and Christians, present the enigma of which religious group gained victory or deserved defeat. In such case, we shall examine the hostility between Pagans and Christians, especially Catholics, during the Middle Ages to determine the justifications of the persecutions of Pagans by the Christians through our presentations of a brief historical overview of the feud, Pagan beliefs, Pagan background, and the effects of Paganism on Catholics with the inclusion of Catholic beliefs. The Middle Ages consisted of gallantry and the prominent feudal system that ensued strengthened beliefs by the Medieval peoples, which caused movements such as the Pagan persecution. Those who found themselves belonging to a certain religious or feudal party fought to make their party the most dominant. One may find that, with the persecution of Pagans, other issues linger that can make the killings and violent acts unjustified.
There is a lot of history dealing with the fight for religious domination in the Mediterranean during the fourth through eighth centuries. We start off this time period with one system in place and finish with another. Paganism was going strong until 312 when Constantine converted to Christianity. This had an almost immediate affect on the people of his region. By 400A.D. more than half the population had converted to Christianity. In the generation to come, Theodosius, enforced harsh anti-pagan laws and ordered the destruction of the most famous Pagan temple. The trend continued in other places around the world where the pagan faith was practiced.
In Africa five years later, on a single day, Counts Gaudentius and Jovius "overthrew the temples of the false gods and broke up the images". In Rome the emperors displayed the "important and dangerous change of national religion". The time had now come that no one could deny this new "Christian empire". The Christian empire is not entirely as big as one would have you believe. Much of the writings that came out of this time are from Christian viewpoints, not because everyone was Christian, but because most of the Pagan works were destroyed in great bon fires in the town center. The Pagans also did not write as much as their foes since they did not have the money or means to write down all their sermons like the bishops in large towns. The rich and influential were mainly Christian therefore opportunities for them to get written records down increased.
Numbers in the Christian ranks grew since Christianity offered more acceptance to women and slaves. The differences were subtle, but enough. In the Christian religion slaves did not receive as many lashes, and women, though forbidden to pray to God themselves, could tell their prayers to a man and have him say it for them. Another reason many people were converted to Christianity was because during this time the absence of a central policing body allowed higher ranking officials of Christian religion to become the police. People wanted to be on the side of the authority, so they converted.
In Rome the emperor enforced harsh laws against the pagans and there were few officials who could protect them from his wrath. In fact, “He did not see it as murder if the victims did not share in his faith.” After Justinian’s death there was a short lull in the persecutions, but determined to continue the cause, the new ruler Tiberius ordered, “Seize as many of them and punish them as their impudence merited, humbling their prude and crucifying and killing them.”
Throughout Paganism has always been present. According to the dictionary the term “paganism” means “idolater” or “irreligious.” To many people a Pagan is a person who is simply not Christian, Jewish, or Muslim. In the past there were many forms of Pagans, where in current time there are the neo Pagans. With all of these aspects, it is clear that Paganism is a very broad term. However, we can examine a specific group of Pagans, those that existed during the times of Ancient Rome.
Pagans of Ancient Rome believed in many Gods. They generally worshipped the earth, sun, sky, sea, and other elements of nature. These Ancient Romans also believed that their Gods control or influence their daily lives and fates. Due to this, the Pagans spent much of their lives attempting to please their Gods. “The Romans did not create great mythologies like the Greeks did. Instead they believed that everything had a spirit” (Kelley, p.763). They also believed that each of these spirits represented good or evil and influenced their daily life. The Roman Pagans believed that they needed to keep the spirits happy by worshipping them and giving them sacrifices.
The Romans believed that there was a god for each field of expertise. There was Ceres, the goddess of agriculture and Apollo the god of the Sea. The most important of the gods was Vesta, the goddess of the family. To honor her all Pagans had a shrine of her in their home. There were also many other Gods such as Jupiter, Mars, Minerva, and Juno.
Pagans had many gods in which all were worshipped. This is where the main controversy between Pagans and Christians arose. The reason for this is because according to the Christian belief, there is one God and only one God. The Christians saw the Pagan beliefs of worshipping many Gods and worshipping idols as evil. Another difference in beliefs came in their theories of the afterlife. The Christians believed in the theory of heaven and hell. The Pagans, however, did not. They believed that a person’s spirit was reincarnated into a new body. Not necessarily the same body, but often in a completely different form. The Pagans definitely had views in which many people of today’s culture would find to be weird or different. It just happens that they lived in time when you could be persecuted for personal beliefs.
Many people perceive Pagans as witches, but there are many aspects about Pagans that other religions do not want to inform to people. Just like Christians, not all Pagans worship the exact same thing or entity. There are a variety of subcultures in Paganism; so many people do not have a full and correct image of Pagans due to the stereotyping. This stereotyping is what brought Pagans so many hardships, which still plague them today.
When people hear the word “pagan” or “witchcraft” they automatically think “Satanist”, but there is a difference. Satanists are not Pagan witches, but instead Pagans originated from Christianity. Pagans do not have any evil “God” that they worship. Pagan beliefs are different from many religions. They do not believe in a society which views people as “good” or “bad”. “Pagans do believe in life after death, which is one aspect that separates many Christians, Catholics, and many other religions from Paganism. (Paris, Ginette, p.181)”
Another difference between the Pagans and the Catholics and Christians is Pagans worship goddesses, but people that study religion know that is not entirely true. Many people do not know that Mary from the Bible is a goddess. She is the just the name Mary for the Christian religion. Also, the Pagan religion does not have a Bible, but instead they have “The Book of Shadows” (Paris, Ginette, p.72). Pagans believe temples are outside while Christians believe temples are buildings.
Along with differences other religions and Paganism have similarities. It may be because Paganism was recorded to have been around since 2 AD, even before the Christians (Smith, John Holland,p.14). To begin, neither religion believes in the sacrifice of any sort. Somehow, a rumor sprouted saying Pagans sacrificed humans. The Pagans supposedly put people in “Wicca” baskets and burned them to death. When what actually occurred was they did burn things, but they burned that weren’t anything living with a soul. They burnt hay dolls that resembled people. This rumor started way back in the past and is still attached to the stereotyping of Pagans. The people who fabricated this story hated the Pagan so spreading this rumor put many against Pagans. As other groups, Pagans thought themselves to be healers and they attended to any wounds or ailments of people (Smith, John Holland, p.103). Like any other religion Pagans believe to “harm none, including yourself”. Also, most of the Christian holidays were created as Pagan holidays.
1) Easter was named after a Pagan Goddess named Easter.
2) Winter solstice (December 21) was the first Pagan holiday. It was set up to represent the death of God.
3) One of the most famous holidays is Halloween, Hallow Eve, Day of the Deaf, which is a Christian holiday derived form the Pagan religion. It’s the day when the earth is ready for a long sleep and to renew itself. These holidays set up a cycle for all living creatures and showed how we all grow and then die. For Pagans, life does exist after death so life does not stop, it’s reborn and the cycle continues in a larger cycle circle forever.
Paganism is a religion that has it differences as any other religion, but there the church making it hard for people to truly understand the religion did not accept differences. The church hated Paganism because they didn’t accept validity of any form of worship not centered on Divinity, but on natural things such as trees. This hatred lead the church to spread lie and rumors and this religion so closely related to Christianity to be hated. What people fail to realize is when you take time to actually understand this religion we all have at least a little Pagan in us all.
As Paganism flourished during the Neolithic period, its rituals and beliefs also evolved and grew stronger ensuing anger in the Catholics and other Christians. Paganism includes various religions that are based on polytheistic beliefs or the belief in more than one God. Conflicts arose during the Middle Ages as Christians and Pagans disagreed on the several differences in rituals, differences in gods, and differences beliefs. The Medieval times brought much turmoil to various religious groups, which led to such movements as the Crusades; mainly conflicts involving Christians against other religious groups. We will specifically explore the troubled years that involved the persecution of Pagans by Christians, focusing mainly on the Catholics.
Paganism incorporates many religions, such as Witchcraft and Wicca: other religions include the Ancient Greek religion, Ancient Roman religion, and Ancient Drudism (<http://library.thinkquest.org/28111/newpage4.htm>
. Witches practicing Wicca were known for their eerie rituals that involve the sacrificing of animals. Many witch hunts were dedicated to eliminate witches who stole farm animals for sacrificial use. Stories of such witch hunts entail vicious killings of Pagans through death by burning. Pagans were placed on trials for issues that involved diabolism, Luciferianism, and acts involving the Devil. The simple dispute of differing rituals led to the ultimate movement of eliminating more Pagans as they are thought to believe in Satan. Pagans believe in animals, gods, and deities, thus Christians and other monotheistic religions were determined to erase such a religious group that would go against what the Christians believed in . Christians during that time might have observed Pagans rituals performed in places of nature; forests, glens, and other such places are a few that are purely natural. With this in mind, Pagans have been known to practice their religions in close relation to nature, thus they believe in praising animals and some inanimate objects. Gods and goddesses are also praised in Paganism. Due to the many gods and goddesses of Pagans Catholics refused to recognize the group and seek to eliminate their polytheistic religion. Some gods and goddesses include the ancient Roman’s “Apollo, Bacchus, Ceres, Coelus, Cupid, Cybele, Diana, Hercules, Juno, Jupiter, Latona, Mars, Mercury, Minerva, Neptune, Pluto, Proserpina, Saturn, Ulysses, Venus, Vesta, and Vulcan, and less gods referred to as Dii’s include Ianus, Saturnus, Quirinus, Volturnus, Pales, Furrina, Flora, Carmenta, Pomona, Portunus, Fontanus” (<http://www.crystalinks.com/romegods.html>
. The Greeks also believed in many gods and goddesses, of which some show similarities to the ancient Roman’s gods and goddesses since the Roman’s derived their religion from the Greeks. Paganism flourished through polytheism and sacrificial rituals which incorporate the elements of nature very closely. Much of the hostility between Pagans and Christians centered around their differences in rituals, differences in gods, and differences in beliefs. Though Pagans were misunderstood during the Middle Ages, a time where people refused to understand the counterparts, persecution of Pagans should not have occurred. We have examined that Pagans do have similarities with Christians. Some aspects of Christianity directly relates to Paganism.
I was asked to memorise what I did not understand; and, my memory being so good, it refused to be insulted in that manner.
Aleister Crowley
Aleister Crowley
Anyone who quotes crowley needs to be converted. 
You posted:
) Easter was named after a Pagan Goddess named Easter.
2) Winter solstice (December 21) was the first Pagan holiday. It was set up to represent the death of God.
3) One of the most famous holidays is Halloween, Hallow Eve, Day of the Deaf, which is a Christian holiday derived form the Pagan religion. It’s the day when the earth is ready for a long sleep and to renew itself. These holidays set up a cycle for all living creatures and showed how we all grow and then die. For Pagans, life does exist after death so life does not stop, it’s reborn and the cycle continues in a larger cycle circle forever.
Easter was adapted from the pagan holiday of Ostara on the Spring equinox....not from the goddess easter...The actual celebration of easter or passover is taken directly from jewish celebratory rituals and holds to it, in fact the still do the first full moon after such a date and so forth...nothing to do with the spring equinox. And the pagan holiday celebrates the blooming earth's life....to where the Christian holiday celebrates the life cycle...life, death, rebirth into new body...
which leads me to my next statement: Halloween or Samhain is the day that traditionally celebrates the death of the god of wicca/paganism. The winter solstice is the BIRTH of the sun god. This is where the pagans celebrate the life cycle...nowhere near the Christian holiday of Easter.
Catholics took the holidays of the pagans and used them to help convert the heathens *use of word is as it is in the dictionary*
to Christianity by making it seem similar and not so threatening. This tactic is a normally used one by various religions.
If you follow the actual religion Jesus set down you will find the various feast days, the attonement day celebration, and passover have NOTHING to do with paganism and aren't even close in dates to pagan rituals. Nor do they have anything paganistic tied to them. Look these festivals up in the old testament.
My view is this: if we can celebrate Jesus and His Father by using other holidays that's great. All the better, but if we celebrate Jesus and His Father EVERY DAY it then makes life as it should be: holy every day because the Lord gave it to us to use to His service.
And what do you think that eternal life for the soul spirit is? If that isn't eternal life or "life after death" I don't know what is. Personally, I'm wanting to go to Heaven, rather than come back to this planet over and over in a new raggedy human body. Sorry, no reincarnation for me! I'm heading for the top! I wanna be with my Maker and live as a blessed spirit soul with Him forever.
You posted:
) Easter was named after a Pagan Goddess named Easter.
2) Winter solstice (December 21) was the first Pagan holiday. It was set up to represent the death of God.
3) One of the most famous holidays is Halloween, Hallow Eve, Day of the Deaf, which is a Christian holiday derived form the Pagan religion. It’s the day when the earth is ready for a long sleep and to renew itself. These holidays set up a cycle for all living creatures and showed how we all grow and then die. For Pagans, life does exist after death so life does not stop, it’s reborn and the cycle continues in a larger cycle circle forever.
Easter was adapted from the pagan holiday of Ostara on the Spring equinox....not from the goddess easter...The actual celebration of easter or passover is taken directly from jewish celebratory rituals and holds to it, in fact the still do the first full moon after such a date and so forth...nothing to do with the spring equinox. And the pagan holiday celebrates the blooming earth's life....to where the Christian holiday celebrates the life cycle...life, death, rebirth into new body...
which leads me to my next statement: Halloween or Samhain is the day that traditionally celebrates the death of the god of wicca/paganism. The winter solstice is the BIRTH of the sun god. This is where the pagans celebrate the life cycle...nowhere near the Christian holiday of Easter.
Catholics took the holidays of the pagans and used them to help convert the heathens *use of word is as it is in the dictionary*
to Christianity by making it seem similar and not so threatening. This tactic is a normally used one by various religions.
If you follow the actual religion Jesus set down you will find the various feast days, the attonement day celebration, and passover have NOTHING to do with paganism and aren't even close in dates to pagan rituals. Nor do they have anything paganistic tied to them. Look these festivals up in the old testament.
My view is this: if we can celebrate Jesus and His Father by using other holidays that's great. All the better, but if we celebrate Jesus and His Father EVERY DAY it then makes life as it should be: holy every day because the Lord gave it to us to use to His service.
And what do you think that eternal life for the soul spirit is? If that isn't eternal life or "life after death" I don't know what is. Personally, I'm wanting to go to Heaven, rather than come back to this planet over and over in a new raggedy human body. Sorry, no reincarnation for me! I'm heading for the top! I wanna be with my Maker and live as a blessed spirit soul with Him forever.
oh and a P.S.
Everything and I do mean everything is under the control of God, even your pagan deities and satan! Soooo...if Christians can use other religions to bring the lost to Jesus Christ we will and can and it is stated in the Bible and in Catholic teachings!
God is so awesome that He can take something twisted and warped like paganism and make it something beautiful and workable and useful like Easter or Christmas! He has every right to do this, He owns everything!
Woo Hoo! Praise God! He rules! He even rules you Spikes! So the next time you dance naked in a protective circle so the demons can't reach out and snatch you up to munch munch remember that nothing is in existence unless God allowed it...including your clay idols!
Everything and I do mean everything is under the control of God, even your pagan deities and satan! Soooo...if Christians can use other religions to bring the lost to Jesus Christ we will and can and it is stated in the Bible and in Catholic teachings!
God is so awesome that He can take something twisted and warped like paganism and make it something beautiful and workable and useful like Easter or Christmas! He has every right to do this, He owns everything!
Woo Hoo! Praise God! He rules! He even rules you Spikes! So the next time you dance naked in a protective circle so the demons can't reach out and snatch you up to munch munch remember that nothing is in existence unless God allowed it...including your clay idols!
Jan 22, 2005, 4:45 AM
User (56 posts)
Jan 22, 2005, 4:45 AM
Post #8 of 24
Views: 742
Christianity is by itself a default of paganism.
The sun, as supreme among the celestial bodies visible to the astronomers of antiquity, was assigned to the highest of the gods and became symbolic of the supreme authority of the Creator Himself. From a deep philosophic consideration of the powers and principles of the sun has come the concept of the Trinity as it is understood in the world today. The tenet of a Triune Divinity is not peculiar to Christian or Mosaic theology, but forms a conspicuous part of the dogma of the greatest religions of both ancient and modern times. The Persians, Hindus, Babylonians, and Egyptians had their Trinities. In every instance these represented the threefold form of one Supreme Intelligence. In modern Masonry, the Deity is symbolized by an equilateral triangle, its three sides representing the primary manifestations of the Eternal One who is Himself represented as a tiny flame, called by the Hebrews Yod (י. Jakob Böhme, the Teutonic mystic, calls the Trinity The Three Witnesses, by means of which the Invisible is made known to the visible, tangible universe.
The origin of the Trinity is obvious to anyone who will observe the daily manifestations of the sun. This orb, being the symbol of all Light, has three distinct phases: rising, midday, and setting. The philosophers therefore divided the life of all things into three distinct parts: growth, maturity, and decay. Between the twilight of dawn and the twilight of evening is the high noon of resplendent glory. God the Father, the Creator of the world, is symbolized by the dawn. His color is blue, because the sun rising in the morning is veiled in blue mist. God the Son he Illuminating One sent to bear witness of His Father before all the worlds, is the celestial globe at noonday, radiant and magnificent, the maned Lion of Judah, the Golden-haired Savior of the World. Yellow is His color and His power is without end. God the Holy Ghost is the sunset phase, when the orb of day, robed in flaming red, rests for a moment upon the horizon line and then vanishes into the darkness of the night to wandering the lower worlds and later rise again triumphant from the embrace of darkness.
To the Egyptians the sun was the symbol of immortality, for, while it died each night, it rose again with each ensuing dawn. Not only has the sun this diurnal activity, but it also has its annual pilgrimage, during which time it passes successively through the twelve celestial houses of the heavens, remaining in each for thirty days. Added to these it has a third path of travel, which is called the precession of the equinoxes, in which it retrogrades around the zodiac through the twelve signs at the rate of one degree every seventy-two years.
Concerning the annual passage of the sun through the twelve houses of the heavens, Robert Hewitt Brown, 32°, makes the following statement: "The Sun, as he pursued his way among these 'living creatures' of the zodiac, was said, in allegorical language, either to assume the nature of or to triumph over the sign he entered. The sun thus became a Bull in Taurus, and was worshipped as such by the Egyptians under the name of Apis, and by the Assyrians as Bel, Baal, or Bul. In Leo the sun became a Lion-slayer, Hercules, and an Archer in Sagittarius. In Pisces, the Fishes, he was a fish--Dagon, or Vishnu, the fish-god of the Philistines and Hindoos."
A careful analysis of the religious systems of pagandom uncovers much evidence of the fact that its priests served the solar energy and that their Supreme Deity was in every case this Divine Light personified. Godfrey Higgins, after thirty years of inquiry into the origin of religious beliefs, is of the opinion that "All the Gods of antiquity resolved themselves into the solar fire, sometimes itself as God, or sometimes an emblem or shekinah of that higher principle, known by the name of the creative Being or God."
The Egyptian priests in many of their ceremonies wore the skins of lions, which were symbols of the solar orb, owing to the fact that the sun is exalted, dignified, and most fortunately placed in the constellation of Leo, which he rules and which was at one time the keystone of the celestial arch. Again, Hercules is the Solar Deity, for as this mighty hunter performed his twelve labors, so the sun, in traversing the twelve houses of the zodiacal band, performs during his pilgrimage twelve essential and benevolent labors for the human race and for Nature in general, Hercules, like the Egyptian priests, wore the skin of a lion for a girdle. Samson, the Hebrew hero, as his name implies, is also a solar deity. His fight with the Nubian lion, his battles with the Philistines, who represent the Powers of Darkness, and his memorable feat of carrying off the gates of Gaza, all refer to aspects of solar activity. Many of the ancient peoples had more than one solar deity; in fact, all of the gods and goddesses were supposed to partake, in part at least, of the sun's effulgence.
The golden ornaments used by the priestcraft of the various world religions are again a subtle reference to the solar energy, as are also the crowns of kings. In ancient times, crowns had a number of points extending outward like the rays of the sun, but modern conventionalism has, in many cases, either removed the points or else bent: them inward, gathered them together, and placed an orb or cross upon the point where they meet. Many of the ancient prophets, philosophers, and dignitaries carried a scepter, the upper end of which bore a representation of the solar globe surrounded by emanating rays. All the kingdoms of earth were but copies of the kingdoms of Heaven, and the kingdoms of Heaven were best symbolized by the solar kingdom, in which the sun was the supreme ruler, the planets his privy council, and all Nature the subjects of his empire.
Many deities have been associated with the sun. The Greeks believed that Apollo, Bacchus, Dionysos, Sabazius, Hercules, Jason, Ulysses, Zeus, Uranus, and Vulcan partook of either the visible or invisible attributes of the sun. The Norwegians regarded Balder the Beautiful as a solar deity, and Odin is often connected with the celestial orb, especially because of his one eye. Among the Egyptians, Osiris, Ra, Anubis, Hermes, and even the mysterious Ammon himself had points of resemblance with the solar disc. Isis was the mother of the sun, and even Typhon, the Destroyer, was supposed to be a form of solar energy. The Egyptian sun myth finally centered around the person of a mysterious deity called Serapis. The two Central American deities, Tezcatlipoca and Quetzalcoatl, while often associated with the winds, were also undoubtedly solar gods.
In Masonry the sun has many symbols. One expression of the solar energy is Solomon, whose name SOL-OM-ON is the name for the Supreme Light in three different languages. Hiram Abiff, the CHiram (Hiram) of the Chaldees, is also a solar deity, and the story of his attack and murder by the Ruffians, with its solar interpretation, will be found in the chapter The Hiramic Legend. A striking example of the important part which the sun plays in the symbols and rituals of Freemasonry is given by George Oliver, D.D., in his Dictionary of Symbolical Masonry, as follows:
"The sun rises in the east, and in the east is the place for the Worshipful Master. As the sun is the source of all light and warmth, so should the Worshipful Master enliven and warm the brethren to their work. Among the ancient Egyptians the sun was the symbol of divine providence." The hierophants of the Mysteries were adorned with many. insignia emblematic of solar power. The sunbursts of gilt embroidery on the back of the vestments of the Catholic priesthood signify that the priest is also an emissary and representative of Sol Invictus.
---please read on...these topics ever require more research
For reasons which they doubtless considered sufficient, those who chronicled the life and acts of Jesus found it advisable to metamorphose him into a solar deity. The historical Jesus was forgotten; nearly all the salient incidents recorded in the four Gospels have their correlations in the movements, phases, or functions of the heavenly bodies.
Among other allegories borrowed by Christianity from pagan antiquity is the story of the beautiful, blue-eyed Sun God, with His golden hair falling upon His shoulders, robed from head to foot in spotless white and carrying in His arms the Lamb of God, symbolic of the vernal equinox. This handsome youth is a composite of Apollo, Osiris, Orpheus, Mithras, and Bacchus, for He has certain characteristics in common with each of these pagan deities.
The philosophers of Greece and Egypt divided the life of the sun during the year into four parts; therefore they symbolized the Solar Man by four different figures. When He was born in the winter solstice, the Sun God was symbolized as a dependent infant who in some mysterious manner had managed to escape the Powers of Darkness seeking to destroy Him while He was still in the cradle of winter. The sun, being weak at this season of the year, had no golden rays (or locks of hair), but the survival of the light through the darkness of winter was symbolized by one tiny hair which alone adorned the head of the Celestial Child. (As the birth of the sun took place in Capricorn, it was often represented as being suckled by a goat.)
At the vernal equinox, the sun had grown to be a beautiful youth. His golden hair hung in ringlets on his shoulders and his light, as Schiller said, extended to all parts of infinity. At the summer solstice, the sun became a strong man, heavily bearded, who, in the prime of maturity, symbolized the fact that Nature at this period of the year is strongest and most fecund. At the autumnal equinox, the sun was pictured as an aged man, shuffling along with bended back and whitened locks into the oblivion of winter darkness. Thus, twelve months were assigned to the sun as the length of its life. During this period it circled the twelve signs of the zodiac in a magnificent triumphal march. When fall came, it entered, like Samson, into the house of Delilah (Virgo), where its rays were cut off and it lost its strength. In Masonry, the cruel winter months are symbolized by three murderers who sought to destroy the God of Light and Truth.
The coming of the sun was hailed with joy; the time of its departure was viewed as a period to be set aside for sorrow and unhappiness. This glorious, radiant orb of day, the true light "which lighteth every man who cometh into the world," the supreme benefactor, who raised all things from the dead, who fed the hungry multitudes, who stilled the tempest, who after dying rose again and restored all things to life--this Supreme Spirit of humanitarianism and philanthropy is known to Christendom as Christ, the Redeemer of worlds, the Only Begotten of The Father, the Word made Flesh, and the Hope of Glory.
---again about Christian holidays
The pagans set aside the 25th of December as the birthday of the Solar Man. They rejoiced, feasted, gathered in processions, and made offerings in the temples. The darkness of winter was over and the glorious son of light was returning to the Northern Hemisphere. With his last effort the old Sun God had torn down the house of the Philistines (the Spirits of Darkness) and had cleared the way for the new sun who was born that day from the depths of the earth amidst the symbolic beasts of the lower world.
Concerning this season of celebration, an anonymous Master of Arts of Balliol College, Oxford, in his scholarly treatise, Mankind Their Origin and Destiny, says: "The Romans also had their solar festival, and their games of the circus in honor of the birth of the god of day. It took place the eighth day before the kalends of January--that is, on December 25. Servius, in his commentary on verse 720 of the seventh book of the Æneid, in which Virgil speaks of the new sun, says that, properly speaking, the sun is new on the 8th of the Kalends of January-that is, December 25. In the time of Leo I. (Leo, Serm. xxi., De Nativ. Dom. p. 148), some of the Fathers of the Church said that 'what rendered the festival (of Christmas) venerable was less the birth of Jesus Christ than the return, and, as they expressed it, the new birth of the sun.' It was on the same day that the birth of the Invincible Sun (Natalis solis invicti), was celebrated at Rome, as can be seen in the Roman calendars, published in the reign of Constantine and of Julian (Hymn to the Sun, p. 155). This epithet 'Invictus' is the same as the Persians gave to this same god, whom they worshipped by the name of Mithra, and whom they caused to be born in a grotto (Justin. Dial. cum Trips. p. 305), just as he is represented as being born in a stable, under the name of Christ, by the Christians."
Concerning the Catholic Feast of the Assumption and its parallel in astronomy, the same author adds: "At the end of eight months, when the sun-god, having increased, traverses the eighth sign, he absorbs the celestial Virgin in his fiery course, and she disappears in the midst of the luminous rays and the glory of her son. This phenomenon, which takes place every year about the middle of August, gave rise to a festival which still exists, and in which it is supposed that the mother of Christ, laying aside her earthly life, is associated with the glory of her son, and is placed at his side in the heavens. The Roman calendar of Columella (Col. 1. II. cap. ii. p. 429) marks the death or disappearance of Virgo at this period. The sun, he says, passes into Virgo on the thirteenth day before the kalends of September. This is where the Catholics place the Feast of the Assumption, or the reunion of the Virgin to her Son. This feast was formerly called the feast of the Passage of the Virgin (Beausobre, tome i. p. 350); and in the Library of the Fathers (Bibl. Part. vol. II. part ii. p. 212) we have an account of the Passage of the Blessed Virgin. The ancient Greeks and Romans fix the assumption of Astraea, who is also this same Virgin, on that day."
This Virgin mother, giving birth to the Sun God which Christianity has so faithfully preserved, is a reminder of the inscription concerning her Egyptian prototype, Isis, which appeared on the Temple of Sais: "The fruit which I have brought forth is the Sun." While the Virgin was associated with the moon by the early pagans, there is no doubt that they also understood her position as a constellation in the heavens, for nearly all the peoples of antiquity credit her as being the mother of the sun, and they realized that although the moon could not occupy that position, the sign of Virgo could, and did, give birth to the sun out of her side on the 25th day of December. Albertus Magnus states, "We know that the sign of the Celestial Virgin rose over the Horizon at the moment at which we fix the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Among certain of the Arabian and Persian astronomers the three stars forming the sword belt of Orion were called the Magi who came to pay homage to the young Sun God. The author of Mankind--Their Origin and Destiny contributes the following additional information: "In Cancer, which had risen to the meridian at midnight, is the constellation of the Stable and of the Ass. The ancients called it Præsepe Jovis. In the north the stars of the Bear are seen, called by the Arabians Martha and Mary, and also the coffin of Lazarus. "Thus the esotericism of pagandom was embodied in Christianity, although its keys are lost. The Christian church blindly follows ancient customs, and when asked for a reason gives superficial and unsatisfactory explanations, either forgetting or ignoring the indisputable fact that each religion is based upon the secret doctrines of its predecessor.
---not to disagree, just to learn
The sun, as supreme among the celestial bodies visible to the astronomers of antiquity, was assigned to the highest of the gods and became symbolic of the supreme authority of the Creator Himself. From a deep philosophic consideration of the powers and principles of the sun has come the concept of the Trinity as it is understood in the world today. The tenet of a Triune Divinity is not peculiar to Christian or Mosaic theology, but forms a conspicuous part of the dogma of the greatest religions of both ancient and modern times. The Persians, Hindus, Babylonians, and Egyptians had their Trinities. In every instance these represented the threefold form of one Supreme Intelligence. In modern Masonry, the Deity is symbolized by an equilateral triangle, its three sides representing the primary manifestations of the Eternal One who is Himself represented as a tiny flame, called by the Hebrews Yod (י
. Jakob Böhme, the Teutonic mystic, calls the Trinity The Three Witnesses, by means of which the Invisible is made known to the visible, tangible universe. The origin of the Trinity is obvious to anyone who will observe the daily manifestations of the sun. This orb, being the symbol of all Light, has three distinct phases: rising, midday, and setting. The philosophers therefore divided the life of all things into three distinct parts: growth, maturity, and decay. Between the twilight of dawn and the twilight of evening is the high noon of resplendent glory. God the Father, the Creator of the world, is symbolized by the dawn. His color is blue, because the sun rising in the morning is veiled in blue mist. God the Son he Illuminating One sent to bear witness of His Father before all the worlds, is the celestial globe at noonday, radiant and magnificent, the maned Lion of Judah, the Golden-haired Savior of the World. Yellow is His color and His power is without end. God the Holy Ghost is the sunset phase, when the orb of day, robed in flaming red, rests for a moment upon the horizon line and then vanishes into the darkness of the night to wandering the lower worlds and later rise again triumphant from the embrace of darkness.
To the Egyptians the sun was the symbol of immortality, for, while it died each night, it rose again with each ensuing dawn. Not only has the sun this diurnal activity, but it also has its annual pilgrimage, during which time it passes successively through the twelve celestial houses of the heavens, remaining in each for thirty days. Added to these it has a third path of travel, which is called the precession of the equinoxes, in which it retrogrades around the zodiac through the twelve signs at the rate of one degree every seventy-two years.
Concerning the annual passage of the sun through the twelve houses of the heavens, Robert Hewitt Brown, 32°, makes the following statement: "The Sun, as he pursued his way among these 'living creatures' of the zodiac, was said, in allegorical language, either to assume the nature of or to triumph over the sign he entered. The sun thus became a Bull in Taurus, and was worshipped as such by the Egyptians under the name of Apis, and by the Assyrians as Bel, Baal, or Bul. In Leo the sun became a Lion-slayer, Hercules, and an Archer in Sagittarius. In Pisces, the Fishes, he was a fish--Dagon, or Vishnu, the fish-god of the Philistines and Hindoos."
A careful analysis of the religious systems of pagandom uncovers much evidence of the fact that its priests served the solar energy and that their Supreme Deity was in every case this Divine Light personified. Godfrey Higgins, after thirty years of inquiry into the origin of religious beliefs, is of the opinion that "All the Gods of antiquity resolved themselves into the solar fire, sometimes itself as God, or sometimes an emblem or shekinah of that higher principle, known by the name of the creative Being or God."
The Egyptian priests in many of their ceremonies wore the skins of lions, which were symbols of the solar orb, owing to the fact that the sun is exalted, dignified, and most fortunately placed in the constellation of Leo, which he rules and which was at one time the keystone of the celestial arch. Again, Hercules is the Solar Deity, for as this mighty hunter performed his twelve labors, so the sun, in traversing the twelve houses of the zodiacal band, performs during his pilgrimage twelve essential and benevolent labors for the human race and for Nature in general, Hercules, like the Egyptian priests, wore the skin of a lion for a girdle. Samson, the Hebrew hero, as his name implies, is also a solar deity. His fight with the Nubian lion, his battles with the Philistines, who represent the Powers of Darkness, and his memorable feat of carrying off the gates of Gaza, all refer to aspects of solar activity. Many of the ancient peoples had more than one solar deity; in fact, all of the gods and goddesses were supposed to partake, in part at least, of the sun's effulgence.
The golden ornaments used by the priestcraft of the various world religions are again a subtle reference to the solar energy, as are also the crowns of kings. In ancient times, crowns had a number of points extending outward like the rays of the sun, but modern conventionalism has, in many cases, either removed the points or else bent: them inward, gathered them together, and placed an orb or cross upon the point where they meet. Many of the ancient prophets, philosophers, and dignitaries carried a scepter, the upper end of which bore a representation of the solar globe surrounded by emanating rays. All the kingdoms of earth were but copies of the kingdoms of Heaven, and the kingdoms of Heaven were best symbolized by the solar kingdom, in which the sun was the supreme ruler, the planets his privy council, and all Nature the subjects of his empire.
Many deities have been associated with the sun. The Greeks believed that Apollo, Bacchus, Dionysos, Sabazius, Hercules, Jason, Ulysses, Zeus, Uranus, and Vulcan partook of either the visible or invisible attributes of the sun. The Norwegians regarded Balder the Beautiful as a solar deity, and Odin is often connected with the celestial orb, especially because of his one eye. Among the Egyptians, Osiris, Ra, Anubis, Hermes, and even the mysterious Ammon himself had points of resemblance with the solar disc. Isis was the mother of the sun, and even Typhon, the Destroyer, was supposed to be a form of solar energy. The Egyptian sun myth finally centered around the person of a mysterious deity called Serapis. The two Central American deities, Tezcatlipoca and Quetzalcoatl, while often associated with the winds, were also undoubtedly solar gods.
In Masonry the sun has many symbols. One expression of the solar energy is Solomon, whose name SOL-OM-ON is the name for the Supreme Light in three different languages. Hiram Abiff, the CHiram (Hiram) of the Chaldees, is also a solar deity, and the story of his attack and murder by the Ruffians, with its solar interpretation, will be found in the chapter The Hiramic Legend. A striking example of the important part which the sun plays in the symbols and rituals of Freemasonry is given by George Oliver, D.D., in his Dictionary of Symbolical Masonry, as follows:
"The sun rises in the east, and in the east is the place for the Worshipful Master. As the sun is the source of all light and warmth, so should the Worshipful Master enliven and warm the brethren to their work. Among the ancient Egyptians the sun was the symbol of divine providence." The hierophants of the Mysteries were adorned with many. insignia emblematic of solar power. The sunbursts of gilt embroidery on the back of the vestments of the Catholic priesthood signify that the priest is also an emissary and representative of Sol Invictus.
---please read on...these topics ever require more research
For reasons which they doubtless considered sufficient, those who chronicled the life and acts of Jesus found it advisable to metamorphose him into a solar deity. The historical Jesus was forgotten; nearly all the salient incidents recorded in the four Gospels have their correlations in the movements, phases, or functions of the heavenly bodies.
Among other allegories borrowed by Christianity from pagan antiquity is the story of the beautiful, blue-eyed Sun God, with His golden hair falling upon His shoulders, robed from head to foot in spotless white and carrying in His arms the Lamb of God, symbolic of the vernal equinox. This handsome youth is a composite of Apollo, Osiris, Orpheus, Mithras, and Bacchus, for He has certain characteristics in common with each of these pagan deities.
The philosophers of Greece and Egypt divided the life of the sun during the year into four parts; therefore they symbolized the Solar Man by four different figures. When He was born in the winter solstice, the Sun God was symbolized as a dependent infant who in some mysterious manner had managed to escape the Powers of Darkness seeking to destroy Him while He was still in the cradle of winter. The sun, being weak at this season of the year, had no golden rays (or locks of hair), but the survival of the light through the darkness of winter was symbolized by one tiny hair which alone adorned the head of the Celestial Child. (As the birth of the sun took place in Capricorn, it was often represented as being suckled by a goat.)
At the vernal equinox, the sun had grown to be a beautiful youth. His golden hair hung in ringlets on his shoulders and his light, as Schiller said, extended to all parts of infinity. At the summer solstice, the sun became a strong man, heavily bearded, who, in the prime of maturity, symbolized the fact that Nature at this period of the year is strongest and most fecund. At the autumnal equinox, the sun was pictured as an aged man, shuffling along with bended back and whitened locks into the oblivion of winter darkness. Thus, twelve months were assigned to the sun as the length of its life. During this period it circled the twelve signs of the zodiac in a magnificent triumphal march. When fall came, it entered, like Samson, into the house of Delilah (Virgo), where its rays were cut off and it lost its strength. In Masonry, the cruel winter months are symbolized by three murderers who sought to destroy the God of Light and Truth.
The coming of the sun was hailed with joy; the time of its departure was viewed as a period to be set aside for sorrow and unhappiness. This glorious, radiant orb of day, the true light "which lighteth every man who cometh into the world," the supreme benefactor, who raised all things from the dead, who fed the hungry multitudes, who stilled the tempest, who after dying rose again and restored all things to life--this Supreme Spirit of humanitarianism and philanthropy is known to Christendom as Christ, the Redeemer of worlds, the Only Begotten of The Father, the Word made Flesh, and the Hope of Glory.
---again about Christian holidays
The pagans set aside the 25th of December as the birthday of the Solar Man. They rejoiced, feasted, gathered in processions, and made offerings in the temples. The darkness of winter was over and the glorious son of light was returning to the Northern Hemisphere. With his last effort the old Sun God had torn down the house of the Philistines (the Spirits of Darkness) and had cleared the way for the new sun who was born that day from the depths of the earth amidst the symbolic beasts of the lower world.
Concerning this season of celebration, an anonymous Master of Arts of Balliol College, Oxford, in his scholarly treatise, Mankind Their Origin and Destiny, says: "The Romans also had their solar festival, and their games of the circus in honor of the birth of the god of day. It took place the eighth day before the kalends of January--that is, on December 25. Servius, in his commentary on verse 720 of the seventh book of the Æneid, in which Virgil speaks of the new sun, says that, properly speaking, the sun is new on the 8th of the Kalends of January-that is, December 25. In the time of Leo I. (Leo, Serm. xxi., De Nativ. Dom. p. 148), some of the Fathers of the Church said that 'what rendered the festival (of Christmas) venerable was less the birth of Jesus Christ than the return, and, as they expressed it, the new birth of the sun.' It was on the same day that the birth of the Invincible Sun (Natalis solis invicti), was celebrated at Rome, as can be seen in the Roman calendars, published in the reign of Constantine and of Julian (Hymn to the Sun, p. 155). This epithet 'Invictus' is the same as the Persians gave to this same god, whom they worshipped by the name of Mithra, and whom they caused to be born in a grotto (Justin. Dial. cum Trips. p. 305), just as he is represented as being born in a stable, under the name of Christ, by the Christians."
Concerning the Catholic Feast of the Assumption and its parallel in astronomy, the same author adds: "At the end of eight months, when the sun-god, having increased, traverses the eighth sign, he absorbs the celestial Virgin in his fiery course, and she disappears in the midst of the luminous rays and the glory of her son. This phenomenon, which takes place every year about the middle of August, gave rise to a festival which still exists, and in which it is supposed that the mother of Christ, laying aside her earthly life, is associated with the glory of her son, and is placed at his side in the heavens. The Roman calendar of Columella (Col. 1. II. cap. ii. p. 429) marks the death or disappearance of Virgo at this period. The sun, he says, passes into Virgo on the thirteenth day before the kalends of September. This is where the Catholics place the Feast of the Assumption, or the reunion of the Virgin to her Son. This feast was formerly called the feast of the Passage of the Virgin (Beausobre, tome i. p. 350); and in the Library of the Fathers (Bibl. Part. vol. II. part ii. p. 212) we have an account of the Passage of the Blessed Virgin. The ancient Greeks and Romans fix the assumption of Astraea, who is also this same Virgin, on that day."
This Virgin mother, giving birth to the Sun God which Christianity has so faithfully preserved, is a reminder of the inscription concerning her Egyptian prototype, Isis, which appeared on the Temple of Sais: "The fruit which I have brought forth is the Sun." While the Virgin was associated with the moon by the early pagans, there is no doubt that they also understood her position as a constellation in the heavens, for nearly all the peoples of antiquity credit her as being the mother of the sun, and they realized that although the moon could not occupy that position, the sign of Virgo could, and did, give birth to the sun out of her side on the 25th day of December. Albertus Magnus states, "We know that the sign of the Celestial Virgin rose over the Horizon at the moment at which we fix the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Among certain of the Arabian and Persian astronomers the three stars forming the sword belt of Orion were called the Magi who came to pay homage to the young Sun God. The author of Mankind--Their Origin and Destiny contributes the following additional information: "In Cancer, which had risen to the meridian at midnight, is the constellation of the Stable and of the Ass. The ancients called it Præsepe Jovis. In the north the stars of the Bear are seen, called by the Arabians Martha and Mary, and also the coffin of Lazarus. "Thus the esotericism of pagandom was embodied in Christianity, although its keys are lost. The Christian church blindly follows ancient customs, and when asked for a reason gives superficial and unsatisfactory explanations, either forgetting or ignoring the indisputable fact that each religion is based upon the secret doctrines of its predecessor.
---not to disagree, just to learn
Mar 5, 2006, 5:53 PM
Novice (35 posts)
Mar 5, 2006, 5:53 PM
Post #9 of 24
Views: 742
As i was scanning thru this post i can only say, Wow. Alot of good information there. For the most part. I do agree. Christianity did come out of paganism. Alot of the hoildays were pagan until the christians.. (christianized)them.
As for the Human sacrifices theroy. I have never heard thru my studies(and thats all i did.. am a christian)of wicca, paganism and the like, that any human sacrifices were ever made.
From all i gathered in my studying.. Paganism is an earth based religion. Pagans are more focused in mother nature.. All living things.. where else would they get the Harm none.. that includes nature... God's creation. They recognize the feminiality of God instead of excluding it all together..
yes te male aspect is more powerful... stronger.. but in all things there has to be balance.. thats where we get grace and mercy.. compassion.. patience.. virtue.. etc... from the female aspect of God.
i know there is much more to paganism than what i have touched on.. but i think we as christians should not be so quick to judge.. Do what our heavenly father has told us to do.. Preach the gospel.. tell others about his son jesus,, if the person witnessed too turns you a way or doesnt accept your testimony, then fall on your knees and pray.. not throw jesus down someone's throat.. If we spread the word and leave the rest in his hands.. Then our job is thru.. its up to God to do the rest..
i have a few pagan friends and never once have they tried to force their beliefs on me or my family.. we either beieve or not.. they still love just the same... and what more of an example of christ's love do i need.? If you ask me.. more of todays christians need to learn from the pagan way of life.. incorporate their love system into their christian walk... not saying convert to paganism.. im saying.. trust God, learn to do what is called for.. be more prayer minded. love centered, accept all humand for all thei faults just as christ did... live by example here...christ accepted all. shouldnt we..
As for the Human sacrifices theroy. I have never heard thru my studies(and thats all i did.. am a christian)of wicca, paganism and the like, that any human sacrifices were ever made.
From all i gathered in my studying.. Paganism is an earth based religion. Pagans are more focused in mother nature.. All living things.. where else would they get the Harm none.. that includes nature... God's creation. They recognize the feminiality of God instead of excluding it all together..
yes te male aspect is more powerful... stronger.. but in all things there has to be balance.. thats where we get grace and mercy.. compassion.. patience.. virtue.. etc... from the female aspect of God.
i know there is much more to paganism than what i have touched on.. but i think we as christians should not be so quick to judge.. Do what our heavenly father has told us to do.. Preach the gospel.. tell others about his son jesus,, if the person witnessed too turns you a way or doesnt accept your testimony, then fall on your knees and pray.. not throw jesus down someone's throat.. If we spread the word and leave the rest in his hands.. Then our job is thru.. its up to God to do the rest..
i have a few pagan friends and never once have they tried to force their beliefs on me or my family.. we either beieve or not.. they still love just the same... and what more of an example of christ's love do i need.? If you ask me.. more of todays christians need to learn from the pagan way of life.. incorporate their love system into their christian walk... not saying convert to paganism.. im saying.. trust God, learn to do what is called for.. be more prayer minded. love centered, accept all humand for all thei faults just as christ did... live by example here...christ accepted all. shouldnt we..
Mandy, what a great post. And from a Christian, no less! I'm not sure I can add much more, but I'll try.
Neo-paganism is generally misunderstood by most Christians, or at least most Christians on this website. Many Christians make it their mission in life to expose the "wickedness" of what they call occult religions. On the flip side, pagans pay absolutely no mind to Christianity, unless being accosted by them.
Most pagan religions are comprised of people peacefully worshipping nature's cycles and the forces behind them. Wiccans do believe in evil forces, but none are called "Satan". They do not worship the "devil", nor anything evil. In fact, the Wiccan crede says:
Bide The Wiccan Law Ye Must,
In Perfect Love, In Perfect Trust.
Eight Words The Wiccan Rede Fulfill:
An Ye Harm None, Do As Ye Will.
And Ever Mind The Rule Of Three:
What Ye Send Out, Comes Back To Thee.
Follow This With Mind And Heart,
And Merry Ye Meet, And Merry Ye Part.
I personally read no evil in this. It actually says that what is sent out comes back times three. Christians will be quick to point out that because it is not Christian, it is evil. They are wrong.
Neo-paganism is generally misunderstood by most Christians, or at least most Christians on this website. Many Christians make it their mission in life to expose the "wickedness" of what they call occult religions. On the flip side, pagans pay absolutely no mind to Christianity, unless being accosted by them.
Most pagan religions are comprised of people peacefully worshipping nature's cycles and the forces behind them. Wiccans do believe in evil forces, but none are called "Satan". They do not worship the "devil", nor anything evil. In fact, the Wiccan crede says:
Bide The Wiccan Law Ye Must,
In Perfect Love, In Perfect Trust.
Eight Words The Wiccan Rede Fulfill:
An Ye Harm None, Do As Ye Will.
And Ever Mind The Rule Of Three:
What Ye Send Out, Comes Back To Thee.
Follow This With Mind And Heart,
And Merry Ye Meet, And Merry Ye Part.
I personally read no evil in this. It actually says that what is sent out comes back times three. Christians will be quick to point out that because it is not Christian, it is evil. They are wrong.
Mar 7, 2006, 6:38 AM
Novice (35 posts)
Mar 7, 2006, 6:38 AM
Post #12 of 24
Views: 742
good morning chuck
thanks for your reply.
i'd like to expand just a tad.. i dont like to put "worship" in with the mother nature thing.. pagans i personally have found, do not "worship" anything.. they simply have a love and great respect for nature, and anything God created. As for "spells" that are evil as christians put it.. i found to be alot like prayers.. To who?? God.. Calling the Elements is nothing more than Calling on our heavenly father, acknowledging that he is there. He is the creator of wind, air , fire, (cant remember the rest
)
All im saying is we as christians are very quick to judge whats right and wrong when we christians have alot of faults to account for too sometimes.. no one is perfect..
I first became interested in paganism when my dad left and my life was turned upside down about 2 yrs ago. i wanted to learn what others found comfort in that christianity couldnt or didnt provide for them.. i learned alot. some i agree with some i do not.. But when my dad fell ill and he died.. i found comfort in my lord and saviour who was and is ALWAYS there for me.
i have learned to not be s jdgemental.. just give your testimony and then leave the rest in God's hands.. he knows what to do betther than any hman on this earth... After all he created us...
mandy
thanks for your reply.
i'd like to expand just a tad.. i dont like to put "worship" in with the mother nature thing.. pagans i personally have found, do not "worship" anything.. they simply have a love and great respect for nature, and anything God created. As for "spells" that are evil as christians put it.. i found to be alot like prayers.. To who?? God.. Calling the Elements is nothing more than Calling on our heavenly father, acknowledging that he is there. He is the creator of wind, air , fire, (cant remember the rest
) All im saying is we as christians are very quick to judge whats right and wrong when we christians have alot of faults to account for too sometimes.. no one is perfect..
I first became interested in paganism when my dad left and my life was turned upside down about 2 yrs ago. i wanted to learn what others found comfort in that christianity couldnt or didnt provide for them.. i learned alot. some i agree with some i do not.. But when my dad fell ill and he died.. i found comfort in my lord and saviour who was and is ALWAYS there for me.
i have learned to not be s jdgemental.. just give your testimony and then leave the rest in God's hands.. he knows what to do betther than any hman on this earth... After all he created us...
mandy
Just a few thoughts on the Wiccan rede from the perspective of the ex-High Priest of a neo-Pagan Coven that has since come to Christ...
Today's Wiccan ethics largely center on the Wiccan Rede: An ye harm none, Do what ye will. Longer versions are in circulation adding poetry or personal views (or both), but these eight words are the basis of these variants and best sum up the nature of Wiccan ethics: to harm none.
Much criticism has been leveled at the Wiccan Rede by outsiders who, by a quick reading of the text, assume that it is a license to do whatever "feels good" to the individual without accompanying responsibility. Nothing could be further from the truth.
The Rede states that a Wiccan is free to do what ever they want to, as long as it does not harm themselves or anyone else. Harm is normally considered to include manipulation, domination, attempts to control, physically injure, emotionally harm, or hurt another person or group in any way.
ORIGINS AND HISTORY OF THE WICCAN REDE
Although by the 1980's the Rede was a standard inclusion in books on Wicca, there were very few references to it prior to the mid-1970's. This may have partly been due to the fact that Wicca was primarily a secretive religion to non-Initiates prior to the end of the 1960's, but also because ethics were not a topic of focus in the early years of Wicca when more emphasis was placed on history and defining witchcraft practices.
By the early 1970's both the Gardnerian and Alexandrian Traditions had gained momentum, having become established in the United States where they quickly spread.
As Wicca received more public attention, and solitary practice began to explode, many public Wiccans felt the need to emphasize Wiccan morality, and in the 1980's authors such as Raymond Buckland and Scott Cunningham produced simplified handbooks that catered to solitary practitioners that included the Wiccan Rede.
Interestingly, Gerald Gardner's writings contain no mention of the Wiccan Rede, be it in general terms or verbatim, prior to his third book The Meaning of Witchcraft, published in 1959. Even in this the Rede was not yet formalized as it is now, but rather it only touched upon its essence of the Wiccan ethos as "harm none".
"[Witches] are inclined to the morality of the legendary Good King Pausol, "Do what you like so long as you harm no one". But they believe a certain law to be important, "You must not use magic for anything which will cause harm to anyone, and if, to prevent a greater wrong being done, you must discommode someone, you must do it only in a way which will abate the harm."
Although the above quote has been sited many times as the origin of the Rede, it turns out that King Pausole (not "Pausol") was a literary character in the story The Adventures of King Pausole (1901) by Pierre Louÿs (1870-1925), a French novelist. The specific quote Gerald was referring to was:
I. Do no wrong to thy neighbour.
II. Observing this, do as thou pleasest.
Already this has the feel of the Rede, but it had not yet been articulated in the form popular today.
The Gardnerian Craft Laws, which were introduced around 1957 although finalized around 1961, make further reference to the idea of the Rede, although again only in general terms: "And for long we have obeyed this law, 'Harm none'".
When associating the Rede with Gardner, most scholars suggest the Rede is actually based on the older Law of Thelema created by Aleister Crowley (1875-1947) in his work Liber al Vel Legis (1904), more commonly known as 'The Book of the Law'.
"Who calls us Thelemites will do no wrong, if he look but close into the word. For there are therein Three Grades, the Hermit, and the Lover, and the man of Earth. Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law."
Although the extent of influence on the Rede is debatable, Aleister Crowley's influence cannot be easily dismissed. Gardner was Initiated into the O.T.O. by Crowley in 1946 and was rumored to have met with Crowley as far back as 1936. After Crowley's death in 1947, many regarded Gerald as an obvious successor as leader of the order, especially since he had been granted (purchased) a charter by Crowley empowering Gardner to start a local encampment of the order.
Therefore, Gerald Gardner was more than just slightly involved with the O.T.O. and its teachings. Being that other writings of Gardner, such as the 'Charge of the Goddess', were reworked by Doreen Valiente since, as she put it, "people are just not going to accept this and take it seriously so long as they think you're an offshoot of Crowley's O.T.O.", it is quite possible that she also encouraged Gardner to keep the Rede away from sounding like a work of Aleister Crowley.
Doreen Valiente, an early Initiate and High Priestess of Gerald Gardner, and who is considered by many to be the "mother of Wicca" for her significant influence in Gardner's work, was entrusted with editing Gardner's notes into a more formal Book of Shadows.
The first recorded mention of the Wiccan Rede in the eight-word form popular today, at least that I have been able to discover thus far, was in a speech by Doreen Valiente on October 3, 1964 at what may have been the first witches' dinner organized in modern history. The event was sponsored by Pentagram, a quarterly newsletter and "witchcraft review" published by Gerard Noel in 1964.
If the Rede (or at least a version of it) was written by Valiente then the Aleister Crowley influence needs to be accepted as possibility. While Gerald Gardner does not associate Crowley with Wiccan ethics despite drawing from Crowley's work in other areas, Doreen Valiente, seems to have been much more open to using Crowley's Law.
Many of Doreen Valiente's books mentioned Aleister Crowley and recognized his influence in Wiccan beliefs and practices, including the Wiccan Rede which is very reminiscent of Crowley's dictum "Love is the Law, Love under Will" that traditionally followed the greeting "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law". Even the spelling of "magick" with a 'K' in the last line of Valiente's Creed (below) is also very characteristic of Thelema.
An Do What You Will be the challenge,
So be it in Love that harms none,
For this is the only commandment,
By Magick of old, be it done.
By the 1980's most books on Wicca and Neo-Paganism made reference to the Rede, sometimes modernizing it and other times making it more archaic sounding.
By the 1990's many were clueless of the Rede's history and several new variations of the Rede, often anonymous or lacking references, were scattered throughout newsletters and - of course - over the Internet.
More variants seem to include Wiccan catch phrases such as "as above, so below" and "merry ye meet, and merry ye part".
In the Ostara 1975 (Vol. III. No. 69) issue of Green Egg magazine, in an article called "Wiccan-Pagan Potpourri", was a long (but most Wiccans and Neo-Pagans will find very familiar) poem called the Rede Of The Wiccae:
Bide the Wiccan Laws ye must In Perfect Love and Perfect Trust.
Live an' let live - Fairly take an' fairly give.
Cast the Circle thrice about To keep all evil spirits out.
To bind the spell every time - Let the spell be spake in rhyme.
Soft of eye an' light of touch - Speak little, listen much.
Deosil go by the waxing Moon - Sing and Dance the Wiccan Rune.
Widdershins go when the Moon doth wane, An' the Werewolf howls by the dread Wolfsbane.
When the Lady's Moon is new, Kiss thy hand to Her times two.
When the Moon rides at Her peak Then your heart's desire seek.
Heed the Northwind's mighty gale - Lock the door and drop the sail.
When the wind comes from the South, Love will kiss thee on the mouth.
When the wind blows from the East, Expect the new and set the feast.
When the West wind blows o'er thee, Departed spirits restless be.
Nine woods in the Cauldron go - Burn them quick an' burn them slow.
Elder be ye Lady's tree - Burn it not or cursed ye'll be.
When the Wheel begins to turn - Let the Beltane fires burn.
When the Wheel has turned a Yule, Light the Log an' let Pan rule.
Heed ye flower bush an' tree - By the Lady Blessèd Be.
Where the rippling waters go Cast a stone an' truth ye'll know.
When ye have need, Hearken not to others greed.
With the fool no season spend Or be counted as his friend.
Merry meet an' merry part - Bright the cheeks an' warm the heart.
Mind the Threefold Law ye should - Three times bad an' three times good.
When misfortune is enow, Wear the Blue Star on thy brow.
True in love ever be Unless thy lover's false to thee.
Eight words ye Wiccan Rede fulfill - An' it harm none, Do what ye will.
Most Wiccans and Neo-Pagans do not believe in sin. But why then is there a need for the Wiccan Rede if there is no such thing as sin? Why encourage Wiccans "to do no harm," and to not do magick with wrong intentions? The very existence of the Rede indicates a belief that men and women can do bad things, that we are not good all the time.
In contrast to the Wiccan and Neo-Pagan view of 'original sactity', the Bible teaches:
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one." (Romans 3:10-12)
"But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God" (Romans 3:21-25)
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." (1 John 1:9-10)
"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin." (1 John 3:4-5) "All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death." (1 John 5:17) "...for whatsoever is not of faith is sin." (Romans 14:23) "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." (James 4:17)
Today's Wiccan ethics largely center on the Wiccan Rede: An ye harm none, Do what ye will. Longer versions are in circulation adding poetry or personal views (or both), but these eight words are the basis of these variants and best sum up the nature of Wiccan ethics: to harm none.
Much criticism has been leveled at the Wiccan Rede by outsiders who, by a quick reading of the text, assume that it is a license to do whatever "feels good" to the individual without accompanying responsibility. Nothing could be further from the truth.
The Rede states that a Wiccan is free to do what ever they want to, as long as it does not harm themselves or anyone else. Harm is normally considered to include manipulation, domination, attempts to control, physically injure, emotionally harm, or hurt another person or group in any way.
ORIGINS AND HISTORY OF THE WICCAN REDE
Although by the 1980's the Rede was a standard inclusion in books on Wicca, there were very few references to it prior to the mid-1970's. This may have partly been due to the fact that Wicca was primarily a secretive religion to non-Initiates prior to the end of the 1960's, but also because ethics were not a topic of focus in the early years of Wicca when more emphasis was placed on history and defining witchcraft practices.
By the early 1970's both the Gardnerian and Alexandrian Traditions had gained momentum, having become established in the United States where they quickly spread.
As Wicca received more public attention, and solitary practice began to explode, many public Wiccans felt the need to emphasize Wiccan morality, and in the 1980's authors such as Raymond Buckland and Scott Cunningham produced simplified handbooks that catered to solitary practitioners that included the Wiccan Rede.
Interestingly, Gerald Gardner's writings contain no mention of the Wiccan Rede, be it in general terms or verbatim, prior to his third book The Meaning of Witchcraft, published in 1959. Even in this the Rede was not yet formalized as it is now, but rather it only touched upon its essence of the Wiccan ethos as "harm none".
"[Witches] are inclined to the morality of the legendary Good King Pausol, "Do what you like so long as you harm no one". But they believe a certain law to be important, "You must not use magic for anything which will cause harm to anyone, and if, to prevent a greater wrong being done, you must discommode someone, you must do it only in a way which will abate the harm."
Although the above quote has been sited many times as the origin of the Rede, it turns out that King Pausole (not "Pausol") was a literary character in the story The Adventures of King Pausole (1901) by Pierre Louÿs (1870-1925), a French novelist. The specific quote Gerald was referring to was:
I. Do no wrong to thy neighbour.
II. Observing this, do as thou pleasest.
Already this has the feel of the Rede, but it had not yet been articulated in the form popular today.
The Gardnerian Craft Laws, which were introduced around 1957 although finalized around 1961, make further reference to the idea of the Rede, although again only in general terms: "And for long we have obeyed this law, 'Harm none'".
When associating the Rede with Gardner, most scholars suggest the Rede is actually based on the older Law of Thelema created by Aleister Crowley (1875-1947) in his work Liber al Vel Legis (1904), more commonly known as 'The Book of the Law'.
"Who calls us Thelemites will do no wrong, if he look but close into the word. For there are therein Three Grades, the Hermit, and the Lover, and the man of Earth. Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law."
Although the extent of influence on the Rede is debatable, Aleister Crowley's influence cannot be easily dismissed. Gardner was Initiated into the O.T.O. by Crowley in 1946 and was rumored to have met with Crowley as far back as 1936. After Crowley's death in 1947, many regarded Gerald as an obvious successor as leader of the order, especially since he had been granted (purchased) a charter by Crowley empowering Gardner to start a local encampment of the order.
Therefore, Gerald Gardner was more than just slightly involved with the O.T.O. and its teachings. Being that other writings of Gardner, such as the 'Charge of the Goddess', were reworked by Doreen Valiente since, as she put it, "people are just not going to accept this and take it seriously so long as they think you're an offshoot of Crowley's O.T.O.", it is quite possible that she also encouraged Gardner to keep the Rede away from sounding like a work of Aleister Crowley.
Doreen Valiente, an early Initiate and High Priestess of Gerald Gardner, and who is considered by many to be the "mother of Wicca" for her significant influence in Gardner's work, was entrusted with editing Gardner's notes into a more formal Book of Shadows.
The first recorded mention of the Wiccan Rede in the eight-word form popular today, at least that I have been able to discover thus far, was in a speech by Doreen Valiente on October 3, 1964 at what may have been the first witches' dinner organized in modern history. The event was sponsored by Pentagram, a quarterly newsletter and "witchcraft review" published by Gerard Noel in 1964.
If the Rede (or at least a version of it) was written by Valiente then the Aleister Crowley influence needs to be accepted as possibility. While Gerald Gardner does not associate Crowley with Wiccan ethics despite drawing from Crowley's work in other areas, Doreen Valiente, seems to have been much more open to using Crowley's Law.
Many of Doreen Valiente's books mentioned Aleister Crowley and recognized his influence in Wiccan beliefs and practices, including the Wiccan Rede which is very reminiscent of Crowley's dictum "Love is the Law, Love under Will" that traditionally followed the greeting "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law". Even the spelling of "magick" with a 'K' in the last line of Valiente's Creed (below) is also very characteristic of Thelema.
An Do What You Will be the challenge,
So be it in Love that harms none,
For this is the only commandment,
By Magick of old, be it done.
By the 1980's most books on Wicca and Neo-Paganism made reference to the Rede, sometimes modernizing it and other times making it more archaic sounding.
By the 1990's many were clueless of the Rede's history and several new variations of the Rede, often anonymous or lacking references, were scattered throughout newsletters and - of course - over the Internet.
More variants seem to include Wiccan catch phrases such as "as above, so below" and "merry ye meet, and merry ye part".
In the Ostara 1975 (Vol. III. No. 69) issue of Green Egg magazine, in an article called "Wiccan-Pagan Potpourri", was a long (but most Wiccans and Neo-Pagans will find very familiar) poem called the Rede Of The Wiccae:
Bide the Wiccan Laws ye must In Perfect Love and Perfect Trust.
Live an' let live - Fairly take an' fairly give.
Cast the Circle thrice about To keep all evil spirits out.
To bind the spell every time - Let the spell be spake in rhyme.
Soft of eye an' light of touch - Speak little, listen much.
Deosil go by the waxing Moon - Sing and Dance the Wiccan Rune.
Widdershins go when the Moon doth wane, An' the Werewolf howls by the dread Wolfsbane.
When the Lady's Moon is new, Kiss thy hand to Her times two.
When the Moon rides at Her peak Then your heart's desire seek.
Heed the Northwind's mighty gale - Lock the door and drop the sail.
When the wind comes from the South, Love will kiss thee on the mouth.
When the wind blows from the East, Expect the new and set the feast.
When the West wind blows o'er thee, Departed spirits restless be.
Nine woods in the Cauldron go - Burn them quick an' burn them slow.
Elder be ye Lady's tree - Burn it not or cursed ye'll be.
When the Wheel begins to turn - Let the Beltane fires burn.
When the Wheel has turned a Yule, Light the Log an' let Pan rule.
Heed ye flower bush an' tree - By the Lady Blessèd Be.
Where the rippling waters go Cast a stone an' truth ye'll know.
When ye have need, Hearken not to others greed.
With the fool no season spend Or be counted as his friend.
Merry meet an' merry part - Bright the cheeks an' warm the heart.
Mind the Threefold Law ye should - Three times bad an' three times good.
When misfortune is enow, Wear the Blue Star on thy brow.
True in love ever be Unless thy lover's false to thee.
Eight words ye Wiccan Rede fulfill - An' it harm none, Do what ye will.
Most Wiccans and Neo-Pagans do not believe in sin. But why then is there a need for the Wiccan Rede if there is no such thing as sin? Why encourage Wiccans "to do no harm," and to not do magick with wrong intentions? The very existence of the Rede indicates a belief that men and women can do bad things, that we are not good all the time.
In contrast to the Wiccan and Neo-Pagan view of 'original sactity', the Bible teaches:
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one." (Romans 3:10-12)
"But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God" (Romans 3:21-25)
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." (1 John 1:9-10)
"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin." (1 John 3:4-5) "All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death." (1 John 5:17) "...for whatsoever is not of faith is sin." (Romans 14:23) "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." (James 4:17)
Feb 11, 2008, 3:03 PM
User (102 posts)
Feb 11, 2008, 3:03 PM
Post #14 of 24
Views: 742
Actually the first Christians were so named at Antioch and had nothing to do with paganism. To be called a Christian meant you followed Jesus the Christ.
However, over the centuries Christianity has become a religion and not a relationship with a living God through Christ the only sacrifice of God for sin.
Christianity is actually far from the vision and purpose Jesus set out to accomplish on the earth. Denominationalism has replaced ONE BODY, ONE LORD, ONE BAPTISM. The catholics introduced much of the pagan holidays we now celebrate including Christmas and Easter.
The "sabbath day" according to the Holy Bible is the 7th day, which is SATURDAY. The "church" changed it to "SUNday" after the sun god and now we say that we worship on sunday because Jesus arose on it. No where in the Bible do you see the founding apostles changing the sabbath day to Sunday. This was strictly a Roman worship day that was changed to honor Christ as nations were being converted to Christianity.
Christ-Mass was a celebration mass set aside to convert the pagans to worship Jesus rather than their pagan gods. Noble as it was it is STILL pagan. Jesus was born during Tabernacles (fall) and not in the winter months. Passover was being celebrated at the time because Jesus was called THE PASSOVER LAMB. So what we are celebrating is PASSOVER not Easter to remember the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Easter was to honor ISHTAR and now we have forsaken passover to give way to paganism once again.
It's sad. They should have stuck to the way the founding apostles set up the church to begin with. Now we have a bunch of pagans demanding their rights to celebrate their pagan holidays and dress it up with Jesus and the manager scenes. They refuse to lay down their idolatry and put away old ways for the sake of the Jesus they claim they serve.
However, over the centuries Christianity has become a religion and not a relationship with a living God through Christ the only sacrifice of God for sin.
Christianity is actually far from the vision and purpose Jesus set out to accomplish on the earth. Denominationalism has replaced ONE BODY, ONE LORD, ONE BAPTISM. The catholics introduced much of the pagan holidays we now celebrate including Christmas and Easter.
The "sabbath day" according to the Holy Bible is the 7th day, which is SATURDAY. The "church" changed it to "SUNday" after the sun god and now we say that we worship on sunday because Jesus arose on it. No where in the Bible do you see the founding apostles changing the sabbath day to Sunday. This was strictly a Roman worship day that was changed to honor Christ as nations were being converted to Christianity.
Christ-Mass was a celebration mass set aside to convert the pagans to worship Jesus rather than their pagan gods. Noble as it was it is STILL pagan. Jesus was born during Tabernacles (fall) and not in the winter months. Passover was being celebrated at the time because Jesus was called THE PASSOVER LAMB. So what we are celebrating is PASSOVER not Easter to remember the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Easter was to honor ISHTAR and now we have forsaken passover to give way to paganism once again.
It's sad. They should have stuck to the way the founding apostles set up the church to begin with. Now we have a bunch of pagans demanding their rights to celebrate their pagan holidays and dress it up with Jesus and the manager scenes. They refuse to lay down their idolatry and put away old ways for the sake of the Jesus they claim they serve.
Feb 11, 2008, 3:50 PM
User (187 posts)
Feb 11, 2008, 3:50 PM
Post #15 of 24
Views: 742
Actually Easter is the holy day of Eostre, a Saxon fertility Goddess. Ishtar has nothing to do with Easter. Just because a name sounds the same doesn't mean it is the same. Brittney doesn'a actually carry a spear lol.
Feb 11, 2008, 3:57 PM
User (102 posts)
Feb 11, 2008, 3:57 PM
Post #16 of 24
Views: 742
Ishtar, Goddess of Love, and the First Resurrection
Ishtar, goddess of romance, procreation, and war in ancient Babylon, was also worshipped as the Sumerian goddess Inanna. One of the great goddesses, or "mother goddesses", stories of her descent to the Underworld and the resurrection that follows are contained in the oldest writings that have ever been discovered. . . the Babylonian creation myth Enuma Elish and the story of Gilgamesh. Scholars believed that they were based on the oral mythology of the region and were recorded about 2,100 B.C.E.
The most famous of the myths of Ishtar tell of her descent into the realm of the dead to rescue her young lover, Tammuz, a Vegetation god forced to live half the year in the Underworld. Ishtar approached the gates of the Underworld, which was ruled by her twin sister Eresh-kigel, the goddess of death and infertility. She was refused admission.
Similar to the Greek myths of Demeter and Persephone that came later, during Ishtar's absence the earth grew barren since all acts of procreation ceased while she was away. Ishtar screamed and ranted that she would break down the gates and release all of the dead to overwhelm the world and compete with the living for the remaining food unless she was allowed to enter and plead her case with her twin.
Needless to say, she won admission. But the guard, following standard protocol, refused to let her pass through the first gate unless she removed her crown. At the next gate, she had to remove her earrings, then her necklace at the next, removing her garments and proud finery until she stood humbled and naked after passing through the seventh (and last) gate.
In one version, she was held captive and died but was brought back to life when her servant sprinkled her with the "water of life". In the more widely known version of the myth, Ishtar's request was granted and she regained all of her attire and possessions as she slowly re-emerged through the gates of darkness.
Upon her return, Tammuz and the earth returned to life. Annual celebrations of this "Day of Joy", were held each year around the time of the vernal equinox. These celebrations became the forerunners of the Ostara festivals that welcomed Oestre and the arrival of spring.
A section on the Goddess Ishtar, her myths and symbols, is currently being written and soon will be included with the myths of the goddesses at this website.
Easter eggs, the Easter Bunny, the dawn that arrives with resurrection of life, and the celebration of spring all serve to remind us of the cycle of rebirth and the need for renewal in our lives. In the history of Easter, Christian and pagan traditions are gracefully interwoven.
Ishtar, goddess of romance, procreation, and war in ancient Babylon, was also worshipped as the Sumerian goddess Inanna. One of the great goddesses, or "mother goddesses", stories of her descent to the Underworld and the resurrection that follows are contained in the oldest writings that have ever been discovered. . . the Babylonian creation myth Enuma Elish and the story of Gilgamesh. Scholars believed that they were based on the oral mythology of the region and were recorded about 2,100 B.C.E.
The most famous of the myths of Ishtar tell of her descent into the realm of the dead to rescue her young lover, Tammuz, a Vegetation god forced to live half the year in the Underworld. Ishtar approached the gates of the Underworld, which was ruled by her twin sister Eresh-kigel, the goddess of death and infertility. She was refused admission.
Similar to the Greek myths of Demeter and Persephone that came later, during Ishtar's absence the earth grew barren since all acts of procreation ceased while she was away. Ishtar screamed and ranted that she would break down the gates and release all of the dead to overwhelm the world and compete with the living for the remaining food unless she was allowed to enter and plead her case with her twin.
Needless to say, she won admission. But the guard, following standard protocol, refused to let her pass through the first gate unless she removed her crown. At the next gate, she had to remove her earrings, then her necklace at the next, removing her garments and proud finery until she stood humbled and naked after passing through the seventh (and last) gate.
In one version, she was held captive and died but was brought back to life when her servant sprinkled her with the "water of life". In the more widely known version of the myth, Ishtar's request was granted and she regained all of her attire and possessions as she slowly re-emerged through the gates of darkness.
Upon her return, Tammuz and the earth returned to life. Annual celebrations of this "Day of Joy", were held each year around the time of the vernal equinox. These celebrations became the forerunners of the Ostara festivals that welcomed Oestre and the arrival of spring.
A section on the Goddess Ishtar, her myths and symbols, is currently being written and soon will be included with the myths of the goddesses at this website.
Easter eggs, the Easter Bunny, the dawn that arrives with resurrection of life, and the celebration of spring all serve to remind us of the cycle of rebirth and the need for renewal in our lives. In the history of Easter, Christian and pagan traditions are gracefully interwoven.
Feb 11, 2008, 3:59 PM
User (102 posts)
Feb 11, 2008, 3:59 PM
Post #17 of 24
Views: 742
You really need to get around the internet awhile and find out that your "facts" aren't the only ones out there.
Feb 11, 2008, 4:02 PM
User (187 posts)
Feb 11, 2008, 4:02 PM
Post #18 of 24
Views: 742
Funny, I was about to say the same thing to you.
Sorry about your misinformation, but really, you should study some Saxon history and mythology.
The Saxons did not know anything about Ishtar. They did know a lot about their own Goddess Eostre, so much so that they named a holy day after her.
Sorry about your misinformation, but really, you should study some Saxon history and mythology.
The Saxons did not know anything about Ishtar. They did know a lot about their own Goddess Eostre, so much so that they named a holy day after her.
Feb 11, 2008, 4:05 PM
User (102 posts)
Feb 11, 2008, 4:05 PM
Post #19 of 24
Views: 742
The practice of such things originated in ancient Babylon rather than with the EUROPEANS. You are wrong. And . . . by the way, greek mythology mirrors Roman mythology, only the names changed. So, you still stand corrected.
Feb 11, 2008, 4:10 PM
User (187 posts)
Feb 11, 2008, 4:10 PM
Post #20 of 24
Views: 742
No, I stand disagreed with. A rather important difference.
Are you seriously suggesting that the Saxons got thier religious practices from the Babylonians?
How do you suppose thaat would happen, considering they never met?
No, my dear, you have spent way too much time listening to the propaganda of people who know nothing about history and anthropology, but still need to be famous among Christians.
Try a few reputable classes at your local university. It might be qquite an eye openier for you.
Are you seriously suggesting that the Saxons got thier religious practices from the Babylonians?
How do you suppose thaat would happen, considering they never met?
No, my dear, you have spent way too much time listening to the propaganda of people who know nothing about history and anthropology, but still need to be famous among Christians.
Try a few reputable classes at your local university. It might be qquite an eye openier for you.
Feb 11, 2008, 4:28 PM
User (102 posts)
Feb 11, 2008, 4:28 PM
Post #21 of 24
Views: 742
What does the BIBLE have to say about the occult? DO NOT PRACTICE IT!
Ephesians 6:12= As Christians our fight is not against humans but
against powerful spiritual beings of evil.
2nd Corinthians 11:14-15= Satan and his angels can appear as angels
of righteousness and light.
Matthew 7:21-23= Many who work miracles in God's name will not enter
heaven. Why? Because they do not obey God.
Leviticus 20:6= God will separate himself from those who go after
mediums and familiar spirits.
Leviticus 19:31= Stay away from mediums and familiar spirits.
Deuteronomy 18:10-12= practicing witchcraft, sorcerery, making spells,
being a medium are all terrible sins to God.
Leviticus 20:27= In the (OT) Old Testament, mediums or those with
familiar spirits were to be stoned. (Their called familiar spirits
because these evil spirits are familiar with the dead. Thus they can
imitate the dead.)
1st Samuel 28:3-25= King Saul asked the medium at En Dor to bring up
the prophet Samuel who was dead.
1st Chronicles 10:13= One reason King Saul died was because he asked
a medium for help.
Isaiah 8:19= Seek God not mediums.
Isaiah 47:13-14= Astrologers and stargazers won't be able to save
Babylon.
Daniel 2:27-28= God kept King Nebuchadnezzar's dream and its
interpretation secret from the King's astrologers, magicians or dream
interpreters, and soothsayers. However, he revealed it to his
prophet Daniel.
Acts 16:16-18= A girl was possessed by an evil spirit that enabled
her to be a fortune-teller. Paul commanded the evil spirit to come
out of her in the name or authority of Jesus. The evil fortune
telling spirit left her.
Deuteronomy 4:19= Be careful that you don't worship the sun, moon,
and stars.
Deuteronomy 17:2-5= In the OT those who worshipped the sun, moon, or
stars were to be stoned.
Revelation 22:14-155= Sorcerers (strongs pharmakeia #5331) will not
have access to the tree of life. Pharmakeia involves the use of drugs
in making evil spells.
Revelation 21:8= Sorcerers (pharmakeia), etc., will end up in the
lake of fire.
1st Samuel 15:23= Witchcraft is a sin like rebellion.
2nd Chronicles 33:6= King Manasseh angered God by practicing
witchcraft, sorcery, using mediums, etc.
Exodus 22:18= In the OT a sorceress was to be executed.
Ephesians 6:12= As Christians our fight is not against humans but
against powerful spiritual beings of evil.
2nd Corinthians 11:14-15= Satan and his angels can appear as angels
of righteousness and light.
Matthew 7:21-23= Many who work miracles in God's name will not enter
heaven. Why? Because they do not obey God.
Leviticus 20:6= God will separate himself from those who go after
mediums and familiar spirits.
Leviticus 19:31= Stay away from mediums and familiar spirits.
Deuteronomy 18:10-12= practicing witchcraft, sorcerery, making spells,
being a medium are all terrible sins to God.
Leviticus 20:27= In the (OT) Old Testament, mediums or those with
familiar spirits were to be stoned. (Their called familiar spirits
because these evil spirits are familiar with the dead. Thus they can
imitate the dead.)
1st Samuel 28:3-25= King Saul asked the medium at En Dor to bring up
the prophet Samuel who was dead.
1st Chronicles 10:13= One reason King Saul died was because he asked
a medium for help.
Isaiah 8:19= Seek God not mediums.
Isaiah 47:13-14= Astrologers and stargazers won't be able to save
Babylon.
Daniel 2:27-28= God kept King Nebuchadnezzar's dream and its
interpretation secret from the King's astrologers, magicians or dream
interpreters, and soothsayers. However, he revealed it to his
prophet Daniel.
Acts 16:16-18= A girl was possessed by an evil spirit that enabled
her to be a fortune-teller. Paul commanded the evil spirit to come
out of her in the name or authority of Jesus. The evil fortune
telling spirit left her.
Deuteronomy 4:19= Be careful that you don't worship the sun, moon,
and stars.
Deuteronomy 17:2-5= In the OT those who worshipped the sun, moon, or
stars were to be stoned.
Revelation 22:14-155= Sorcerers (strongs pharmakeia #5331) will not
have access to the tree of life. Pharmakeia involves the use of drugs
in making evil spells.
Revelation 21:8= Sorcerers (pharmakeia), etc., will end up in the
lake of fire.
1st Samuel 15:23= Witchcraft is a sin like rebellion.
2nd Chronicles 33:6= King Manasseh angered God by practicing
witchcraft, sorcery, using mediums, etc.
Exodus 22:18= In the OT a sorceress was to be executed.
Mar 6, 2009, 7:04 AM
User (56 posts)
Mar 6, 2009, 7:04 AM
Post #23 of 24
Views: 742
The Occult - What does the Bible Say?
Judging from what I have been reading in these posts the name of the thread should probably be called
"Evil Stuff that is Probably Called Evil Cause I Don't Know Anything About It And I Bet We Can Find More Dirt On It If The Bible Even Remotely Uses A Word That Looks Like It Might Be Connected To The Evil Stuff."
You know what I am thinking when I read that Thread Title?
I was thinking, would it be a little ironic if some new Bible came out with God being called The Man, and his son was called Chuck. It got super popular. Then there was a purge and almost all Christian bibles were destroyed or hidden. Several generations later, archeologists and historians began writing about this God named (God)? and his son named Jesus and all this fascinating stuff about this civilization that worshiped these pagan gods and such.
Slowly but surely more of the Christian Bibles are found and taken out of their secret hiding places and as more of this old stuff get published you got some small groups of people that take to it and use it for spiritual achievement. All the The Man & Chuck worshipers start calling it the Occult...
Judging from what I have been reading in these posts the name of the thread should probably be called
"Evil Stuff that is Probably Called Evil Cause I Don't Know Anything About It And I Bet We Can Find More Dirt On It If The Bible Even Remotely Uses A Word That Looks Like It Might Be Connected To The Evil Stuff."
You know what I am thinking when I read that Thread Title?
I was thinking, would it be a little ironic if some new Bible came out with God being called The Man, and his son was called Chuck. It got super popular. Then there was a purge and almost all Christian bibles were destroyed or hidden. Several generations later, archeologists and historians began writing about this God named (God)? and his son named Jesus and all this fascinating stuff about this civilization that worshiped these pagan gods and such.
Slowly but surely more of the Christian Bibles are found and taken out of their secret hiding places and as more of this old stuff get published you got some small groups of people that take to it and use it for spiritual achievement. All the The Man & Chuck worshipers start calling it the Occult...
Apr 9, 2009, 4:27 PM
Novice (35 posts)
Apr 9, 2009, 4:27 PM
Post #24 of 24
Views: 742
Awesome Point Bixil. And you know , you would be right.. If christianity slipped thru the ages and "faded" away then another religion took popularity that is exactly what would happen.
All in all we need to understand Paganism was here since the beginning of time. Christianity came in during the time God sent his son. All the celebrations, all the rituals, the sacrifices that the bible speaks of in the old testement is pagan rooted. Christianity hadnt come into the picture yet.
We need to understand , we christians are very strong with our belief.. We love and trust and hold very dear our saviour. Ok, pagans, wiccans hold their roots very sacred. despite all the "hell" they have been put through they STILL stand strong. they still show love and respect.
Christians once a person does them wrong is shunned on, critized, knocked down, threatened if they dont change their sinning ways God's gonna deal with them. As though putting that fear there is gonna make them love the christian way better.
I am a christian yes, but i dont want to have to live in constant fear or sitting on edge waiting for the next dagger to be thrown, Watch my every move or every breath. Jesus certainly didnt live in that kind of turmoil why do we have to?
And just a note, i just re-read thru the old posts, Why on earth would we want to argue which was wrong or right on the Goddess of Easter??? As far as anyone knows the two that was "debating" may have been right. In my studies different cultures had a different name for the same Goddess. depending on which region of the earth you were in. so both may have been right on their statements.
mandy
All in all we need to understand Paganism was here since the beginning of time. Christianity came in during the time God sent his son. All the celebrations, all the rituals, the sacrifices that the bible speaks of in the old testement is pagan rooted. Christianity hadnt come into the picture yet.
We need to understand , we christians are very strong with our belief.. We love and trust and hold very dear our saviour. Ok, pagans, wiccans hold their roots very sacred. despite all the "hell" they have been put through they STILL stand strong. they still show love and respect.
Christians once a person does them wrong is shunned on, critized, knocked down, threatened if they dont change their sinning ways God's gonna deal with them. As though putting that fear there is gonna make them love the christian way better.
I am a christian yes, but i dont want to have to live in constant fear or sitting on edge waiting for the next dagger to be thrown, Watch my every move or every breath. Jesus certainly didnt live in that kind of turmoil why do we have to?
And just a note, i just re-read thru the old posts, Why on earth would we want to argue which was wrong or right on the Goddess of Easter??? As far as anyone knows the two that was "debating" may have been right. In my studies different cultures had a different name for the same Goddess. depending on which region of the earth you were in. so both may have been right on their statements.
mandy