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I am an atheist...

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I am an atheist...
Many years ago, when I was a young atheist of 35 or so and new to the debating scene online…I think it was on Beliefnet…someone posted what most atheists considered an outrageous article. In the rabid way that atheist debate can be, it was ravaged piece by piece, ridiculed and attacked as the example of what is wrong with the “religious right” and Republicans and redneck America.

I followed the link to read the article for myself before commenting. I never did comment. I remember saying to myself, “But…I agree with everything the author is saying…” and where then did that leave me, who thought I was on the “enlightened” side of the line that divides atheists and Christians, although I knew I was different from my peers in many ways. I had just never stopped to think on what the difference really was, since I tended to assume that deep down most people are sort of like me.

That was when my atheism changed. No…that is when I changed. Atheism is merely a lack of deity belief, nothing more, nothing less. The essence of myself has always been the same.

The person who wrote that article was Rush Limbaugh. And…I was a Conservative. I lean more toward Libertarianism on social issues, but the rest is Conservative with a capital “C.”

I decided to present myself as a Conservative atheist (just not on Beliefnet) and I found that I am not alone. Seemed unfair to tar any person with the collective brush and so, my attitude toward believers also changed. I sought to represent the person I was and not my atheism. Perhaps this is just a path taken away from youth by most of us….but it seems that those who do not take it tend to complain the loudest that only their world view is correct.

I presented traditional values, patriotism, and acceptance in the importance of faith for the individual and the community and, most certainly, for the citizens ruled through our representative republic…our “Grand Experiment” that differentiates the USA from other nations. Such a doctrine of rights from the Creator, such a country ruled by law and not by humans, requires an educated, informed, involved and moral citizenry. We are failing because our citizenry is no longer thus and we have elected our own to represent us and with power in such hands comes the danger of apathy, which leads to Despotism.

At any rate, that is what I believe is happening. And…whether or not we survive as what we were meant to be, well…that course is still being decided.

I offer this forum for conversation. This is where I am now. We do not have to debate. I really have little to debate anymore, but I put it here because any discussion on atheism is bound to lead to debate and I do not want to upset anybody. I will be interested in any posts and hope all visitors can benefit from the conversation in any way that is meaningful to them.

In all sincerity,
Jeanne
"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
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Re: [jeanne53] I am an atheist... In reply to
Jeanne, I really appreciate you and thank you very much for this post. When a person says that he/she is an atheist, we all assume that we know what that means. Just like when a person says that they are a Christian or a Mormon, etc. We just assume, from our background, that we have them pegged and we put them into their appropriate slot.

I'm so happy that you are here and that you call yourself an atheist. You have taught us more than we would have otherwise learned. What I want to point out is that to me, and to most people I know, the word "atheist" means "against God"... with the "a" prefix to the word "theist"... I don't really think you are against God. I just think that you have yet to meet Him. i.e. You have not met my Jesus. He is a person and he died representing us. And I am not going to try to proselitize you... that has been done enough already. :(

I just wanted to thank you for posting, as I said, so that I could better understand our differences. Love you!
Blessings ~ Sarah
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Re: [praizeop2] I am an atheist... In reply to
Hello Sarah.

Well...atheist means without god. From Greek, "atheos" that is, "a", without and "theos", god. Of course the meaning alters a bit depending upon which deity the person being accused of atheism is denying exists. Christians do not believe Vishnu exists or any of the other myriad gods and goddesses, which populate past and current beliefs. And...as atheists use the term, all would agree with Christians about those gods and goddesses, plus one.

That's it.

When once I could imagine God and all that belief entails, now I cannot imagine myself accepting such belief as possibly being real.

To me, the Christian God and Jesus Christ are an invention of humanity just as all others were and are, but....the law of this deity and the history of Jesus is worth more than the scriptures and worth more than any nit-picking of them. Honor God and love others. Honor what is and love others. It is up to each atheist to decide "what is" means to them. But...to me it is that which is more than ourselves and that which binds all humanity and that which is the miracle of existence.

If we each "love others" it would take a twisted self to go against what is good. Convoluted debate and theory aside, good is not evil.

Sarah, I did not know the word "atheist" until years after I stopped believing. I had never met another atheist until years after I stopped believing and I found them online. While in my much younger years, I railed against belief and believers as part of of the path away from all theism, I still remained me. I read what other coming out of the closet atheists write and I know that is what is happening to them, so I am glad that most of us tend to outgrow that first stage. Some never do and I no longer choose to associate myself with them, but will gladly tell stories about what unsettled me and then disgusted me.

Aside from my family and some of their friends, I do not know any other atheists personally. People never believe me or my family if they discover that we are atheists. Well...my husband is a Deist. Deity belief is just not a part of our lives, although we are all exposed to it through our friends and our associates.

Anyway...longer post than what I was planning, Sarah. Understanding has always been my goal and the world would be better with more understanding, but humans make it so difficult to reveal inner-selves. Some make it a life and death situation. Oh my... if there is a Creator Deity, how weary it must be of humanity's corruption of the gift of existence.

hugs,
Jeanne

And...Sarah, thanks for your trust.
"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
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Re: [jeanne53] I am an atheist... In reply to
Hello Jeanne,

Sarah did a large part of my work here because I agree with what she has to say about the benefit we gain from having you here to discuss things with. You are truly a welcome addition to our family here on Praize and have contributed so much to the site. We all love you and having you here.

On the other hand, My curiosity is always at work so, I do have a couple of questions for you. You said, "When once I could imagine God and all that belief entails, now I cannot imagine myself accepting such belief as possibly being real."

First, I would like to know about the god you imagined. Was he the god of Christianity or another. What church (denomination) were you involved in if any?

Second, what caused you to turn from that belief and move toward atheism?

Then, you speak of good and evil. Defining these terms is an age old philosophical problem. We are familiar with the natural evil that exists such as floods, hurricanes or Earthquakes etc. But it appears to me that you are speaking of moral evil. Who or what decides the standards for that? Are we free to decide as individuals? II it a community agreement for the common good of man? In fact, Where did the concept come from any way?

I have more questions but, I believe that is enough for now. I hope neither you or your husband will mind but I will close this by saying,

Hugs,


Allen


Smile


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Re: [jeanne53] I am an atheist... In reply to
Jeanne: Greetings.

I think all humanity owes a great deal of its ability to make sense of the present and future by comparing it to their personal experience of the past. This is why, in my opinion, we should not be too judgmental of the actions and ideas of others with whom we may strongly disagree. It may be that they are unable to see our perspective because of the way their personal experiences have molded them.

I consider myself lucky to have had a reasonably positive experience of family life and religious education as a child. My parents were not wealthy, but then again we were not a poverty stricken family. At the age of 7yrs 6m my grandmother arranged for me to join the choir of our local parish church (C of E). Between ages 7 and 16 I became steeped, (or marinated), in the language and concepts of scripture. This was not as some would imagine an unpleasant experience, in fact I had no idea that it was happening. As a chorister I sang through the book of psalms on a yearly cycle, each Sunday at Morning and Evening services the Church of England chanted or recited a psalm, a number of canticles, four hymns per service at least, perhaps an anthem and of course I have sat through as many sermons and prayers as there were Sundays in my life.

For me it was a very positive and enjoyable way of socially interacting with both adults and children of my own age. Choristers, (even the children), are responsible for the leading of worship in church so they have an equality of responsibility with adults in the choir for ‘getting it right’.

By the time I left school and joined the Royal Navy I had a good grounding in the Christian faith, but had as yet nothing I could consider to be a personal encounter with God. It was not until I had been serving in the RN for about 8 years that I began to want intellectual verification of the fact of God’s existence. Before that I just accepted what others had told me or what I had picked up myself from my childhood religious experiences. (I believed that God had answered my prayers as a child but He always seemed rather remote and too important to be concerned with my comparatively insignificant problems).

While serving in a frigate in the far east, (Singapore / Hong Kong), I nearly lost my life three times in succession, in different accidental incidents. I had been flown out to join the ship to replace a technician who had committed suicide by jumping overboard and stabbing himself to death with a screwdriver before he could be picked up. It was some months before I learned of ‘Tommo’ and his fateful death from my messmates and could not understand their reticence, though I knew something was ‘wrong’. By the time the second accident happened knowledge of the ‘Tommo’ incident had really set me searching for answers to the question of God’s existence and what might be involved in ‘The Judgment’ if I were one day to find myself face to face with Him explaining myself.

Having had a religious education taught me the difference between sin and righteousness, but did not prevent me from straying from the straight and narrow. There were some issues that I knew would definitely ‘come up’ in any conversation with ‘God’. Let’s just say I was not all that certain that God would be so kind as to just ‘overlook’ them.

By the time that the third ‘accident’ happened I was avidly reading through the scriptures to find answers to my questions. I got them, mostly from Exodus, Deuteronomy, Leviticus and the Gospels, but the knowledge was far from comforting. In fact I was extremely apprehensive of the possible outcome at any future ‘meeting with my maker’.

It was as I was in this uncomfortable state of uncertainty due to my burdened conscience, that someone pointed out to me that ‘Unless I take my feelings straight to God in prayer, confess and lay myself at his mercy, then offer my allegiance to Christ as Lord and accept his Grace as Saviour’, I would find no peace of mind.

Thus I found myself one night, in a barrack room, once used by cruel Japanese soldiers in WW2 as a brothel, kneeling by my bed, praying the sinners prayer and placing myself at God’s disposal, to serve Jesus Christ, to learn and live His way.

Life has never been the same since that night. A Burden was lifted. One by one my questions were answered, often by strange and coincidental means. In some ways things have improved immensely. I sleep at night with little trouble from conscience. In other ways things have got a lot more challenging, and I still have doubts and fears, (we all have our Gethsemane moments this side of the Styx).

I love you Jeanne: I love your honesty. I love your struggle to find ‘truth’ and your dogged determination to avoid any trite or easy answers which do not ‘fit’ well with your personal experience. I feel we have a great deal in common and my fervent hope is that we will both stand before that judgment seat and hear the words, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant’.

Remember, not everyone who claims to be a servant of God actually is, moreover some who claim not to be His servants, actually do His will, when it comes down to it. It is that that decides the issue, not what we declare ourselves to be.

Regards Chris.
In Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting the message of reconciliation to us. 2 Cor. 5:19. Love covers a multitude of sins. 1 Pet.4:8b.
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Re: [rdrcofe] I am an atheist... In reply to
Great post Chris and a great testimony as well. Smile

Of course, I have always been perfect Whistle. In reality, I too have gone through the doubts and fears that you speak of. It was the Scriptures, a testimony from a little Sunday School teacher and a lot of work done by the Holy Spirit to get me to accept Christ as Lord and Savior. I remember times when I held on to the pew in front of me with a tight grip and white knuckles fighting the urge to go to the altar and pray. Then, one day I realized that I needed Him and that my search for truth was over. It is what we find in Christ that satisfies our souls and gives us peace.

God bless you and your service to Him.

Allen
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Re: [rdrcofe] I am an atheist... In reply to
Hello Chris.

Thank you for sharing your path, your testimony and your faith in Christianity's humanity. Well...that term makes sense to me, but perhaps not to anyone else. Or...maybe it is humanity's faith in Christianity? At any rate, when all three conspire together to produce a force for good that is worth being a part of. I don't seem to be able to find the words to express how much I appreciate your telling of your path to belief and faith. Just thank you, my friend. And....hugs.

You write:

<<I love you Jeanne: I love your honesty. I love your struggle to find ‘truth’ and your dogged determination to avoid any trite or easy answers which do not ‘fit’ well with your personal experience. I feel we have a great deal in common and my fervent hope is that we will both stand before that judgment seat and hear the words, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant’.

Remember, not everyone who claims to be a servant of God actually is, moreover some who claim not to be His servants, actually do His will, when it comes down to it. It is that that decides the issue, not what we declare ourselves to be. >>

Well...thank you. Who knows what the future holds? Who knows what Truth there is beyond this life when the body dies? I know what believers hold fast to, but until that moment comes...faith is all there is. Yes? No? I don't know. I have been told and some believe with all their being, but I do not. As far as I have been able to tell, that is, from my point of view, that is the only difference between me and believers.

One can accept the mythology ...please do not get bent out of shape with this term...I don't know what else to call it. It is the same term Christians would use to refer to any of the beliefs that they do not believe in. One can accept the history and the moral commandments and choose to follow the examples of living with a duty to that which is more than humanity and to humanity and to one's honor. And still choose not to believe. I submit that there are at least a few deity beliefs that could fulfill the same need in life.

Hmmm...I meant to make this a short post and get to a reply to Allen. Smile

So...I wish I could reach out and hug you, Chris. It is good just knowing that you are walking your path the same time I am walking mine. Bless you in all ways. Hope to see you on the flip side, as they say.

-Jeanne
"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
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Re: [Probiblos1962] I am an atheist... In reply to
Hi Allen, oh perfect one. Wink

You write:

<<First, I would like to know about the god you imagined. Was he the god of Christianity or another. What church (denomination) were you involved in if any? >>

Yes, Allen, I was reared in the Christian faith by believing parents in a Christian community with Christian friends in the Methodist Church. Methodist was then not what it is today. "Just in case there is a God, we'll say we are Methodists." An easy-going type of Christianity in the 1950s, 60s, 70s, 80s...and then they moved more Evangelistic, but still odd-one-out, I think. When my church painted their two double beautiful polished oak doors with a bright red paint...well, that was an outward statement of how much the inner-workings of the Methodist church had altered. I shudder to think on it.

My family attended church every Sunday, Sunday School and usually the full service after we graduated from helping in the nursery with the tiny kids and then in the youth choir. My parents each taught Sunday School at one time or another and hosted the Methodist Youth Fellowship and took Bible Study classes and served as members of boards. I took, along with my peers and best friend, classes to prepare me to enter the church as an adult and when the time came to take First Communion, I did. I believed wholeheartedly in a loving God and in Jesus Christ and prayed in my own fashion and I felt a spiritual connection with Life, the Universe and Everything, but never felt the unusual spark, which others seemed to believe they felt and they called it the Holy Spirit. If there was communion it was with that spiritual connection to all existence I had always had and still have...but I did not call it God.

My greatest peace came when I declared out-loud to the Universe that I did not believe in God. Instantly, I was no longer afraid. I do not know what I had been afraid of, but there was no longer any fear. That was when I was in my early 30s, but I had been an unbeliever for some time and before that I had been questioning. Actually, I asked that most basic atheistic of all questions of my preacher when I was around 10 years old: If God made everything, who made God? And I got the same answer I get today: God is eternal.

O...kay... Whatever.

I had a good and long-time friend who took me to a Church of God meeting (I am guessing here) and he was filled up to the brim with "The Spirit" and just aching to have me share in the Good News and be "saved." I was 19. There was certainly a strong group connectivity in which we were encouraged to join. Halfway through the meeting, the group gathered in a ring and I joined in. I have no memory of what all were saying, but I assume it was praise to God and/or Jesus of some sort with the leader quoting scripture. At one point, several men began to "speak in tongues" and some writhed on the floor....well, it was all very captivating. And I thought..okay, is this the real deal? The sense of being involved with something mystical in a group was exciting, but no more so that when the traveling "born-again" troupe visited my home town church. I get more of that same type of feeling when I watch a really good movie in which I become involved, instead of just being a passive observer.

-Jeanne
"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."

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jeanne53: Apr 11, 2015, 6:21 PM
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Re: [Probiblos1962] I am an atheist... In reply to
Allen writes:

<<Second, what caused you to turn from that belief and move toward atheism?>>

Short answer is hypocrisy.

I witnessed the type of Christian in my church and town that claimed to be saved through Jesus and mouthed all the right answers on Sunday, but held hatred in their hearts. I witnessed adultery in the church and envy and lying and cheating and bigotry and racism. I witnessed a fine preacher made the subject of gossip and finally fired from the church because his wife worked outside the home. I witnessed my peers behave in ways that separated me from them then and still leaves distasteful feelings about them to this day.

How dare they claim to be filled with the Holy Spirit and behave this way? How dare they be self-righteous? If I could not claim to be so filled, but knew my heart and soul were in much better condition than theirs, why was that? They were lying about knowing Jesus. If I held myself to much higher principles, then why couldn't they if they were so righteous? Why didn't I feel a communion with God?

I continued as I began from a child with strong notions of right and wrong, through high school years, college years and adulthood. My honor is my own. My integrity is intact. It gets me into trouble and did when I was young, as well. I was on the outside looking in on those whose principles were poor, but who had a wild time as teens and young adults. And yet I have come to find out that apparently I was well liked and well thought of and remembered by both teachers and my peers and that is funny...haha.

At any rate, it was hypocrisy that started me down the path to atheism. Questioning led to skepticism and more questioning and considering and finally, I decided I was no longer a believer. My parents did not attend any church after 1980 and I do not believe they were fully Christians, although they believed in a God of sorts. My in-laws were Old School Baptists, but were not overtly religious and rarely attended church and made no attempt to even encourage me and my husband to attend, not even when the babies started coming along. They seemed to have a private and very practical relationship with their God and it was enough apparently.

What I have is apparently enough for me. I do not feel that I need anything more. I am not hopeless, on the contrary, I have great hope. I have walked the straight and narrow, but it never felt binding..only natural to my sense of self respect. Perhaps....I respect myself too much? No...I recognize my short-comings. But I could not lower my principles....my honor is all and I will not tarnish it.

Oh well...too much rambling on.

-Jeanne
"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
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Re: [jeanne53] I am an atheist... In reply to
Hi Jeanne and thank you for recognizing my perfection LOL.

The only Perfect One ever to walk this Earth was Jesus and, I am a sinner through and through. I remember the days when I gave you a rough time about your Atheism and thought I was doing God's Work. I was wrong and apologize for it, It is one thing to discuss things and another to allow your anger to take control as I did with both you and Chris and, honestly, even at Sarah a time or two. All of you have shown me more grace and love than I deserve.

I was once full of doubt myself and proclaimed that no God existed. I was influenced by the evolutionary teaching in school and the writing of Bertrand Russell especially his article, "Why I am not a Christian." God did reach out to me and I fought Him time and time again. Finally, I yielded to His call.

Even today though, I find times of doubt and struggle. At those times, I find my needs met through Scripture and simply being alone with the Father. Even Jesus took time to be alone and pray. There are times when He said as I go, "Not my will but yours be done."

I see the hypocrisy in the church and have been part of it. I see churches closing their doors and, as John said in Revelation, having their candlestick removed as a result of their apostasy. Tennessee Temple University (where I spent two years) has now closed down. I know of four churches in Jacksonville in the same situation. Three are now closed and the fourth has lost half of the members I strongly believe we are approaching the final judgment and that God is removing His servants from the world without raising up new ones to replace them.

Perhaps the first step to finding truth is to admit that you don't know it. That appears to have been so in my case at least. It leaves room for possibilities we don't expect and, in the end, room for God to guide us and draw us to Him. As for your question. "If God made everything, who made God?" I can only answer with the same thing you have been told. God is eternal. Something or someone had to be don't they? Either it was matter, space or God. It all boils down to a choice of where you place your faith.

I think the important thing coming out in this thread is the fact that, in spite of our differences, we all feel a deep love and concern for each other. For the first time, we are admitting that love and, that is a good thing. It is leading us somewhere and in the end, I believe all of us (Chris, Sarah, You and Me) will be surprised at the result. We'll have to wait and see.

Hugs,
Allen
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Re: [jeanne53] I am an atheist... In reply to
I could take more time and space to answer you here but, it would be a repeat of my first post. No reason to do more than to refer you back to it is there? LOL Laugh
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Re: [Probiblos1962] I am an atheist... In reply to
An interesting afterthought came to me because of a book I am reading. The world's fastest growing religion is Islam. Several things account for that but, I believe two are most important:

First, population control has reduced the number of people willing to hold common jobs. Labor is not being replaced at the same rate people are dying or retiring. It has to be brought in through immigration. Muslims are willing to immigrate in order to gain a foothold in the country and, eventually to control it through Sharia law.

Second, These people truly believe in something and live according to their beliefs. They are actually willing to die for them. How much more sincere can you get?

We live in a world where truth is evasive to say the least. Just as you left the church because of the hypocrisy you saw others are doing the same. Christians are losing members rapidly because they really don't stand for anything. Muslims do and are gaining converts rapidly as a result.

Blessings,
Allen
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Re: [Probiblos1962] I am an atheist... In reply to
Hi Allen.

Hmm.. Because the material world is all that I believe/reason/think exists, I will continue to put my faith in it and consider that it has always been and will always be in one form or another. And...that is enough for me. I know that for many, many believers...perhaps, especially Christians...that is not enough and they wonder out-loud to me, "How can you possibly even get out of bed in the morning?"

That their faith is their "all" is okay by me, but deep inside I have always kept the wonder to them, "How can you put so much faith in your belief that without it you think that you could not function at all?" Really? You could not get out of bed in the morning? Life would have no meaning? You would just wither and die if you found out that your deity belief was based on human imagination and was not reality? If you found out that there was no other life but the one in which you are existing now?

Apologizes to Chris for all the non-question questions; it is an American thing, I guess. Smile

According to most, I should be a depressed and depraved fool...instead of a regular person who just doesn't believe in their God or any deities. But...really? Most people my age assume that everybody believes in something like God. Most people assume that those who do not...well, they believe in nothing. But...that isn't true at all, although it makes a good bumper sticker.

Really meant to reply to your other post....the interesting thought one.

Okay, I will agree with you that Muhammedism is growing for more than just childbirth, although that is a biggie. It grows because they either kill or enslave those they conquer. They force out those they don't kill or enslave and take their property. And...they are the biggest bad guys around who claim they stand for pure Islam (Muhammedism, as I prefer to call it, as it follows Muhammed's tactics to perfection.) and they offer the disenfranchised and the bored and/or mentally unstable youth a part in the action...to really stand for something miraculous in history and for the future Caliphate in a world that has been scoured of infidels.

They will bring on the armagedden needed to bring the Mahdi back. Sincere, yes. Crazy, yes. Do I believe them when they say they will do what they are planning? Yes. They are telling us all the truth about it.


Meanwhile they breed like rabbits and are creating zones around the world with they can thrive within Western countries as Muhammedists under Shariah tribunals and, if they can get it, Shariah courts.

But this discussion is in General Topics, where I posted this tidbit recently:

Islam projected to be world's largest religion by 2070

Atheists tend not to leave the church and take up Muhammedism, we leave that for people who are seeking another religion and God to follow. Atheists tend to be Secular Humanists and sometimes "pains-in-the-butt" for believers, but only the crazy-to-begin with atheists want to kill them by ending Western Civilization.

That Hitler was an atheist of some sort may be true, but it was because he was a mass-murdering-nutcase that he carried out his plan. Same with Mao and Communism. Mass-murdering-nutcase.

Oh and Muhammed, the Muslim? Mass-murdering-nutcase who left a history of how-to war plans for his followers to destroy any who opposed his deification. That is why I call it Muhammedism, instead of Islam. I reserve the term Islam for those Muslims, who live along side the rest of us doing the best we can to promote humanity and some sort of world harmony, if not peace.

-Jeanne
"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
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Re: [jeanne53] I am an atheist... In reply to
Thanks for the link Jeanne. I missed that article somehow but, there are others out there that tell the same story. Your statement about Islam is primarily what I will deal with but, I am sure you know that earlier in my life, I adopted an atheistic view of life. Like you, I went to sleep at night easily and got up every morning with no trouble at all. I'm also certain you know that no one here thinks badly of you for your beliefs. It is all part of life.


To go back to Muslims and Islam though, Let me quote something from the book I am reading. This is from the introduction of The Sword of the Prophet by Serge Trifkovic:


"Islam is not only a religious doctrine; it is also a self-contained world outlook, and a way of life that claims the primary allegiance of all those calling themselves "Muslim."


Islam is also a detailed legal and political set of teachings and beliefs. There is "Christianity” and there used to be "Christendom” but in Islam such a distinction is impossible. To whatever political entity a Muslim believer may belong-to the Arab world of North Africa and the Middle East, to the nation-states of Iran or central Asia, to the hybrid entities of Pakistan and Indonesia, to the international protectorates of Bosnia and Kosovo, or to the liberal democracies of the west-he is first and foremost the citizen of Islam, and belongs morally, spiritually, and intellectually, and in principle totally, to the world of belief of which Muhammad is the Prophet, and Mecca is the capital. This is not, of course, true for every Muslim but it is true of every true Muslim: it is the central worldly demand of Islam." (P. 7)

I personally do not see a difference between the two. The Koran clearly requires all true Muslims to slay unbelievers and/or to have them in Submission and Slavery. In reality, there will eventuality come a time when every Muslim will have to be considered an enemy of this country. That will be the next Civil War. The peace loving, humanitarian Muslims you speak of will face charges of apostasy and death if they don't obey Shariah Law etc.


I'll close with an interesting fact. It has been about a year ago now and the city of Dearborn became the first city in the U.S.A. to fully implement Shariah law. (http://nationalreport.net/...mplement-sharia-law/). It won't be the last.


Take care,
Allen







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Re: [jeanne53] I am an atheist... In reply to
Jeanne, I am itching to reply and even to READ your posts! Whilst (for Chris - lol) I am awaiting my new glasses, I can barely read with these, let alone think! Just wanted to jump in. Be back soon, I hope.
Blessings ~ Sarah
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Re: [praizeop2] I am an atheist... In reply to
Hmmm...Sarah, you could always copy and paste the posts and then make the font MUCH bigger if the itch gets to be too much. Wait, you can't read this, can you?


How about now? Jeanne tries to make the text here bigger.

Well..that didn't work.


but, if you could read this then you could copy and paste, etc.

hugs

And, Allen let us continue the other discussion in general topics.

-Jeanne
"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
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Re: [jeanne53] I am an atheist... In reply to
Fine with me but, at least let me say that, I called Dearborn city council today. The report I mentioned is a fake. They don't know who posted it or why.

Allen
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Re: [Probiblos1962] I am an atheist... In reply to
Allen:

The report I mentioned is a fake. They don't know who posted it or why.

Fox News again? Wink Laugh Smile

I rather suspected it to be a tad unlikely since there are many aspects of Sharia Law which would be clear infringements of Federal Legislation, even though there are perhaps some states which would welcome the sanction of cutting off the hands of thieves or beheading murderers with the sword.

Regards Chris
In Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting the message of reconciliation to us. 2 Cor. 5:19. Love covers a multitude of sins. 1 Pet.4:8b.
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Re: [rdrcofe] I am an atheist... In reply to
Okay, so we are still in this forum, but the ONLY Mosque that is seeking to establish a Shariah Court...court, not tribunbal. That is, a Muslim court that would LEGALLY try Muslims in the USA under Shariah law and not the state law of Texas, which is the state where they are trying to get them to legislate such nonsense is near Austin, I think...at any rate south Texas, near the border. They have not been able to do that, but are still trying.

However, in the UK, the court system has been yielding to Shariah for a few years, where Muslims have established enclaves that very nearly establish "no-go zones" as they have in France and some other countries in Europe. So..yuk it up all you want, Chris, but are you aware of this?

Before Sarah gets her new glasses and smacks us all upside our digital heads, let us move the posts about militant Islam to General Topics. We will pretend we were never here. Whistle

But, Chris, check out the UK Daily Mail to find out what the mainstream media will not report. Wall Street Journal is rated well by all standards for unbiased reporting. Fox News...not Fox commentary is trustworthy, despite what you may believe. Commentary is commentary, but on Fox if they get it wrong, they will correct themselves. You, my friend, have been swayed by those who are looking to tarnish the America that is Conservative and aware and concerned about current events. Our media is absolutely in the Progressives front pocket and so into Obama's administration that if he gets a cold, they blow their nose. They made Obama and he has nearly done exactly what he said he would do and the media is there to cheer and lie and cover-up all the time. It is truly obscene. Only, now and just a tiny bit are some leaving the fold. For those who pay attention, this is a frustrating and frightening time for our country and the world and it is because the Progressive agenda is being fulfilled by their puppet, Obama.

Okay... new place for this topic, please.

-Jeanne
"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
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Re: [jeanne53] I am an atheist... In reply to
Jeanne, I got my new glasses today and for distance they are awesome!!! Unfortunately they are progressive lenses and the near sight is not good... blurring and my eyes don't like it a bit. So, next move is to go back to the eye doc and have him change the prescription. Then back to the glasses place. It only took them a month this time... :( :( :(

So, please, while I am sitting on the sidelines... please only put a post in "General Topics" as a last resort. There are so many quality topics in Apologetics and out, it should be very unusual if there is not another place to post.

Thank you, guys, for keeping things going. Soon, I hope, I will be able to read again. I'm saving up all my comments. Love you all.
Blessings ~ Sarah

Last edited by:

praizeop2: Apr 22, 2015, 12:44 PM
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Re: [praizeop2] I am an atheist... In reply to
Will we be smacked upside our digital heads? LOL
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Re: [rdrcofe] I am an atheist... In reply to
No Chris, It wasn't Fox News. It was a report from WND.
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Re: [jeanne53] I am an atheist... In reply to
I can't believe that this topic was started three years ago! And...yet, it is still relevant to current events and current topics on Praize.

So I am bringing it back into the topic/post feed. Maybe we can continue it. Look at the views! 10,425!

Okay, so maybe I am bored... Laugh.

-Jeanne
"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
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Re: [jeanne53] I am an atheist... In reply to
In replying to Raphael, I found an old post from 2004, which continues to address atheism, or at least, my atheism.

It was one of those involved topics with lots of members involved and I was replying to Susie (true freedom) in a post by a Christian who wanted atheists to prove that God does not exist.

From 2004:

<<You're still young, and you still have alot of energy for this. But my concern, is that it would change, before you are caught with your "spiritual pants down" at a time when you need them on>>

Susie, I was young when I made the final transition to atheism, and it has served me well through many bad times. In the past few months, my energy level has been about as low as it could get...friend commits suicide, husband diagnosed with incurable pain syndrome, mother-in-law lives with me and dies of multiple cancers, mother may soon need a caregiver (guess who). And then the little things which eat away at you...bills, work, children and their relationships, my weight, my own conditions, never breaking even on the clothes and housework....

And I am soon 51, so what does youth have to do with anything? I contend that a strong atheist, one who is really a non-believer, is not going to believe again in the supernatural deities or believe that their holy word is divinely inspired....no matter how tough life gets.

I am not making my atheism a hobby. Except for here, the subject rarely comes up. I enjoy debate with intelligent people, and I find that here. I don't think of myself as an atheist, I think of myself as a human being, a mother, a patriot, a farmer, a wife. My atheism is NOT who I am. And I guess that is unlike christians who define themselves by their religion.

If theists use faith as a base for their belief in deities, then atheists have to use something else. I look to science and reason for answers based on experience and research and facts formed from methodic trials of both. Faith does not describe how I depend upon this for information. Perhaps the word is trust. I trust science and reason to provide me with information because they have earned my trust. The word "faith" implies something far different...the "knowing" without facts..."relying" without proof.

And can I expect that in much of your day to day living you also put your trust in science and reason? In this we are alike, but the addition of the need for faith in the unsubstantiated is beyond my complete understanding, but within my ability to empathize.



This still applies to my atheism and my life. there have been many more trials and tribulations in my life and I have never considered calling upon God for divine intervention. I have never felt the need to seek Jesus. As I contemplate my aging, knowing how frail the human body is and how the evolutionary process of bipedalism really upset nature's original plan for all primates, I expect things to get worse instead of better and for my body to finally wear out in a couple of decades...maybe more with good care. Anyway, I do not anticipate looking for a deity to alleviate my trials or my fears of dying. It is not the dying so much, as it is the possible pain and loss of dignity as I make my way to the end.

-Jeanne
"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
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Re: [jeanne53] I am an atheist... In reply to
In keeping with the fact that I am an atheist, I snagged this bit from the same 2004 topic, which explains why I am here and what I think about this site and this particular forum.

As the most obvious person still posting here, whose "soul" is bound for hell (according to James) after my body dies, I just wanted to remind readers of what I am, who I am and why I am here. I am replying to "Ken Jones" reply to "atthewell," who questioned why we are here, in this post.

From 2004:

<<First of all, this is an Atheist fourm on a Christian site. this fourm was put here so Atheists like myself can engage in friendly debate and discussion with Christians like yourself.>>

I don't think that is exactly correct. I think this forum is for christians who have questions which are atheistic in viewpoint. I think it is for christians to debate with other christians and work those nagging questions out using theistic thinking and using the bible and using christian experience.

I think ahteists have kind of edged in and have been allowed to remain if debate remains civil.

But I do wonder why christians who debate on this particular forum often use it to persuade atheists that they aren't atheists at all, but are here to find salvation...here seeking answers to their own confusion about christianity?

As stated before, I am here to offer an atheistic viewpoint to atheistic debate, and am here to offer myself as at least one type of atheist...and not the evil kind in an atheistic conspiracy.


There you. have it, a run-down of explanations about me, who is one out of five regular contributors to the forums. I keep hoping that more will contribute...

-Jeanne
"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."