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DEPRESSION---CAN IT BRING A SUICIDE SPIRIT?

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Re: [m7thprophet] DEPRESSION---CAN IT BRING A SUICIDE SPIRIT? In reply to
m7thprophet: Hi

DEPRESSION COMES FROM GOING THROUGH DISTRESSING SITUATIONS YOUR MIND REHEARSES REPEATEDLY.

Partly, yes, I agree But: That is a symptom Jim, not a cause.

http://www.nhs.uk/...on/Pages/Causes.aspx

IT TOOK A LONG TIME TO GET MY THERAPISTS CERTIFICATION AND I FIND THAT IT DIDN'T EQUIP ME HALF AS MUCH AS 10 MINUTES WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT COULD DO.
DEPRESSION IS A SUICIDE SPIRIT BECAUSE THE DEPTHS THAT IT CAN TAKE YOU TO CAN'T BE DEALT WITH MEDICALLY AND I HAVE SEEN NUMBERS GO FROM ALMOST INSANITY TO BEING COLD SOBER AFTER 20 MINUTES OF PRAYER IN THE SPIRIT.


And such cases are obviously greatly relieved. However there are many cases where intense sessions of ‘exorcism’ inflicted by well meaning but ignorant and inexperienced enthusiasts, have greatly increased the distress of the patient and therefore the possibility of suicide, or may have degenerated into physical and psychological abuse of the patient, leading to criminal prosecution of the ‘amateur exorcist’. These were not cases of ‘lack of faith’ on behalf of the ‘practitioners’ or self styled ‘exorcists’; ‘faith’ had become a superstitious obsession, they were cases of gross malpractice due to medical or theological ignorance or both.

https://www.theguardian.com/...on.childrensservices

I HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THE SPLIT UP OF THE ANGLICAN GROUP IN BRITAIN AND UNDERSTAND THE LACK OF STRONG FAITH IN MOST OF IT'S FOLLOWERS. THEY JUST CERTIFIED IN COUNCIL THE BIBLICAL TEACHING ON MARRIAGE IS IN ERROR,, THERE IS NO ERROR IN THE WORD JUST MEN!!!!!

https://www.churchofengland.org/media/45645/marriage.pdf

Before berating other Praize members, (namely me), on their Denomination’s teaching, perhaps you should study what the Anglican Church actually DOES ‘hold to’ regarding the meaning and application of ‘Marriage’. When you say you have been following . . . . etc. do you mean reading Fox News or CBN articles and believing them to be the ‘unbiased truth’. The Bible may be free of error but there are plenty of self righteous religious enthusiasts who erroneously mis-interpret its truths through ignorant literalism and dogmatic bigotry.

Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 2 Pet. 3:14.

In the case of botched attempted 'exorcisms' by unqualified 'enthusiasts' read: "Often also unto others destruction". Prayer for protection and even silent 'binding' of spirits through private prayer does no harm to the patient, and may even do some good. Full blown exorcism without oversight or authority can easily degenerate into abuse of the patient and considerable psychological harm to the 'victim'.

CHRIS YOU BETTER LEARN THE DEFINITION OF THE RENEWED SPIRIT IN MEN AND IT IS PNEUMA AFTER THE HOLY SPIRIT WHICH BECOMES THE SPIRIT OF MAN AFTER CHRIST BECOMES LORD.

And this means exactly what?

Do I suggest that YOU do not know how to suck theological, metaphorical eggs? No! I don’t.
So I would thank you not to suggest you know more about The Holy Spirit than do I.

It may indeed be true that you do have more experience than me, but we are called upon to behave toward one another with humility, not compete with each other over who has the more correct doctrine or the greater understanding of the operation of The Holy Spirit. If you are going to ‘boast’, boast of Christ and the reconciliation He has achieved for all of us sinners. Gal. 6:14.

YOU MAY GO AHEAD AND WRITE WHAT YOU WILL BUT IF YOU DO---DOIT ANOTHER FORUM NOT ONE WITH MY NAME I HOLD JESUS AS MY LORD AND HE IS SAVIOR REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU THINK.

Jim, we are all entitled to answer questions in open forums. You do not own the thread you started. Neither should you be the arbiter of who is or who is not a ‘proper Christian’. Isn’t that attitude a bit Pharisaical? I have never once suggested that Jesus might NOT be your Lord or Savior. On the contrary it is you who have suggested on more than one occasion that the Lordship of Christ over my life or my loyalty to Him as Lord is questionable simply because you disagree with my opinions. If you do not like my answers, then refute them citing your reasons and quoting the scriptures you base your opinion on. That way the readership can decide for themselves who they think has the better reasoning.

IF YOU WANT TO WRITE YOUR THEORIES ON THIS DO IT IN A FORUM UNDER YOUR NAME
I WILL ASK SARAH TO BLOCK ANY NONE CHRISTIAN THOUGHT IN THIS.
I AM HOPING SOON THAT PRAIZE WILL BECOME TOTALLY CHRISTIAN SOON.

No doubt the Pharisees hoped that Galilee would become totally under their control soon too. Thank God the world does not work that way. Christ just got on with preaching his message, and they continued to oppose it wherever He went. Fortunately for us sinners, His message endured and theirs petered out.

Now, since we have gotten so far off the topic, perhaps you would like to CLARIFY for us exactly what you understand a ‘Suicidal Spirit’ to be, and how it might be successfully ‘Opposed’, ‘Ousted’ and ‘Overcome’. And let’s see the scripture to back up your points, rather than scenes from the plot of ‘The Exorcist’ or some other Hollywood imaginary creation, (where most people, it seems, get their definitions and theological insights on demonic activity from).

Regards Chris.
Love covers a multitude of sins. 1 Pet.4:8b.

Last edited by:

rdrcofe: Jul 7, 2017, 12:17 AM
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Re: [rdrcofe] DEPRESSION---CAN IT BRING A SUICIDE SPIRIT? In reply to
Hello to all those who have been reading this topic.

Does anyone have an opinion on the topic of depression? Any experience? Any comments about psychotropic drugs effect on depression? How can people who suffer depression with or without suicidal ideations best be helped?

This is not a debate forum, but we are allowed to discuss topics...and disagree or agree.

I would really appreciate someone else's thoughts here. Just a word or two. Don't we have "like" buttons on this website? That would work, too. I don't think I have ever used them, but maybe they are there. That way nobody has to write anything.

Chris's last post already has 12 views. Nothing? No takers?

I don't care if you agree totally with Jim or think I should be banned from Praize for being a non-believer. Just respond with something.

There are currently 4 regular posters here and one that posts rarely and a new member who posted. There were something like 650 views for this one topic.

My view has always been the more discussion, the better...the more information, the better...the more viewpoints, the better. It is the only way we have of gaining understanding of each other.

No doubt, Sarah, will object to this post. I apologize in advance, then, Sarah.

-Jeanne
"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
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Re: [jeanne53] DEPRESSION---CAN IT BRING A SUICIDE SPIRIT? In reply to
Yup, there is a little star in the upper right hand corner of the post, which turns yellow and indicates a number when you "favorite" it.

That's feedback! Anyone can "favorite" a post they agree with or like.

It is okay if nobody favorites a post of mine because I am an atheist. Really, it won't bother me.

-Jeanne
"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
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Re: [rdrcofe] DEPRESSION---CAN IT BRING A SUICIDE SPIRIT? In reply to
CHRIS
GBU
NO IHAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THE ANGLICAN SITUATION IN SEARCHS ON GOOGLE,FIREFOX, CBN NEWS AND WHATEVER I CAN ELICIT FROM COVERAGE IN THE BRITIAN NEWS SOURCES.
BEARING IN MIND THAT BRITISH SOURCES ARE MORE UNRELIABLE THAN I EVER COULD BE
THEY RUN ALONG THE STAGE AS MOST NEWS SOURCES OVER HERE.
BEARING IN MIND ALSO THAT CHRISTIAN COVERAGE IS ALMOST ALWAYS SLANTED WITH A CCHRISTIAN THEOLGY
I DO NOT QUESTION YOUR BELIEF JUST SOME OF YOUR STATEMENTS-----DON'T COMPLAIN TO LOUDLY YOU HAVE UNREASONABLY QUESTIONED ME IN THE PAST.

THE RECENT STATEMENT FROM THE ANGLICAN CONFERENCE IF WHAT WAS PRINTED WAS TRUE,THAT BIBLE ERRORONEOUSLY STATED MARRIAGE WAS ONLY A MALE -FEMALE SITUATION WAS THE BIGGEST ERROR I HAVE FOUND.
THE LORD GAVE US THE RIGHT AND INSTRUCTION TO REPRODUCE AND THAT WOULD INVALIDATE IT AND AS WELL AS pAULS STATEMENT IN ROMAN'S CHAPTER ONE ABOUT GAY RELATIONS.
I WILL NOT AGREE TO A NON---CHRISTIAN ARTICLE HERE BECAUSE TO EVEN ALLOW IT MEANS I AGREE WTIH IT


IN CHRIST
M7TH

regardless of my disagreement I still regard you as brother
in fact I agree with you more than my own blood brother he pastors in a liberal wing of the Methodist group
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Re: [m7thprophet] DEPRESSION---CAN IT BRING A SUICIDE SPIRIT? In reply to
WHY AM I TAKING THIS STANCE IN WANTING JESUS OR NOTHING? IIT IS BECAUSE THE TRUTH OF CHRIST IS THE ONLY WAY OF TRUTH IN THIS WORLD.
EVERY OTHER THOUGHT OR ACTION WILL ONLY LEAD TO A PATH OF DESTRUCTION..
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Re: [m7thprophet] DEPRESSION---CAN IT BRING A SUICIDE SPIRIT? In reply to
m7th prophet: Hi.

Interesting as it may well be, this matter is far off the thread subject. Can we get back to your original question:

Can depression BRING a 'Suicide Spirit'.

I presume your choice of words indicates that you think depression might attract or invite a 'Suicide Spirit', (a definition is lacking), into a depressed person, from outside of 'themselves'.

Have you considered the fact that most cases of 'Depression' do not end in suicide? Have you also considered the fact that most suicides happen for a number of different reasons, only one of them possibly being 'Extreme Depression'.

As I mentioned earlier in a reply to praizeop2, there were no other NT references I could find that specifically named a 'Spirit of Suicide' or 'Suicide Spirit' other than what may be inferred from the incident of the healing by Jesus of the little boy who had 'A Deaf and Dumb Spirit', which sought to destroy him. Mk. 9:22.

Jesus having seen that a multitude doth run together, rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it, `Spirit--dumb and deaf--I charge thee, come forth out of him, and no more thou mayest enter into him;' Mark 9:25. Literally.

And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him. Sam. 16:23.

The depression Spirit that inflicted Saul was actually, according to scripture, sent from God. In fact ALL 'spirits' are 'Angelic' in nature. Some remaining loyal to God and his Sovereignty, others in abject rebellion against the rule of God. ALL of them are however subject to God's Command. God is Sovereign and omnipotent, the powers have been vanquished and have no power apart from that which we actually abdicate ourselves.

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error
. 1 Jn. 4:3-6.

'The Powers' do not, it seems, according to scripture, have a separate spiritual existence. We encounter them always as being in some incarnate material form. Usually in the embodiment of persons, institutions, governments, mobs, political movements etc. Not as free floating intangible, invisible entities. Without a material 'host' to act and communicate through, they are powerless to act or influence God's world.

For instance: A "mob spirit", does not hover in the sky waiting to leap down on unruly crowds when the weather gets hot and sticky and some issue inflames the passions of an unruly crowd of people. It is the actual spirit constellated when the crowd reaches a certain critical flashpoint pitch of excitement and frustration. It comes into existence in that moment, causes people to act in ways they would never have dreamed themselves capable, and then ceases to exist the moment the crowd disperses. It is a form of mass hysteria which profoundly influences weak minded people. (Much like 'The Force' in Star Wars', Return of The Jedi.) We though are told by scripture that we are NOT weak minded, we are 'of a sound mind'.

For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind. 2Tim.1:7.

Therefore while we, or anyone else, live by the principles laid down by our Lord, Master and Savior Jesus Christ we will never be subjected or overcome by such 'spirits'. The Spirit WE have is far superior.

Just so, a 'Suicide Spirit' if such a thing actually exists, (and scripture is relatively silent of the issue), is not some disembodied phantasm hovering in the air looking for an unfortunate to 'drive to distraction'. It is the emotional state itself which the depressed person feels utterly unable, under their own power, to 'shake off' or 'overcome'.

As such the patient needs support in reestablishing his / her supremacy over their own emotional state. Regaining their spiritual equilibrium. Their natural 'poise' and 'well-being'. This may require therapy, medication, exercise, changes in diet, counseling, a stress free environment, prayer for deliverance and lots of support.

Not just being screamed at, punched, kicked and publicly humiliated in some sort of pseudo-spiritual vaudeville style entertainment for the curious, as seen on some of the more lurid, sensational TV evangelist extravaganzas and super spiritual revivalist meetings. No matter how 'Truly Biblical' they may deem and claim themselves to be.

Regards Chris.
Love covers a multitude of sins. 1 Pet.4:8b.

Last edited by:

rdrcofe: Jul 8, 2017, 10:38 AM
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Re: [rdrcofe] DEPRESSION---CAN IT BRING A SUICIDE SPIRIT? In reply to
cHRIS I APPRECIATE YOUR RESPONSE IN THE POST,ICAN'T SAY I AGREE WITH IT TOTALLY . I AGREE THAT MANY NEED TO BE TREATED MEDICALLY BECAUSE OF THIS SITUATION AND AT THIS POINT ABSOLOUTELY DISAGREE WITH THE APPROACH MEDICALLY FOR SERIOUS DISORDERS.
I HAVE GONE TO HOSPITALS TO HAVE VICTIMS OF THIS EVALUATED FOR COUNSELING AND HAVE SEEN MIRACULOUS RESULTS IN PRAYER & COUNSEL THROUGH THE SPIRIT OF GOD.IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE WHETHER YOU ACCEPT ITOR NOT.
AT NO TIME HAVE I EVER CLAIMED A PHYSICAL REALITY FOR ANY SPIRIT;ONE THING YOU MUST UNDERSTAND I THINK SOME OF YOUR FEELING ABOUT A SPIRIT CONCEPT IS FROM OLD WIVES TALES OR WATCHING TELEVISION EVANGELIST'S WHO GO SENSATIONALISTIC JUST FOR VIEWER RESPONSE AND APPROVAL.
IN THE DEEP SOUTH THERE STILL IS A LIMITED NUMBER OF MEN WHO CLAIM TO BE CALLED TO VERYING STAGES OF MINISTRY AND POSSESS CERTAIN GIFTS... THEY SELL WORDS OF PROPHESY FOR DIFFERENT LEVELS OF FEES AND GUARANTEE DELIVERANCE PHYSICAL MALADIES TO MENTAL DISORDERS.

WHAT IAM SAYING TO YOU IN NOWAY DENEGRATES YOUR STATEMENT BUT IT ISN'T TOTALLY POSITIVEOR A 100% THING ..
IT BOILS DOWN TO THIS ,THERE IS NOTHING THAT CAN'T BE TOUCHED BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD.

M7TH
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Re: [m7thprophet] DEPRESSION---CAN IT BRING A SUICIDE SPIRIT? In reply to
Hello Jim.

You write of Chris's post on crazy exorcisms as being rare or a thing of the past, except it isn't. People still die from religious-based exorcisms and healing rituals and by ignoring, for religious reasons, medical treatments that can heal and keep people alive.

You cannot honestly "absolutely disagree" with medical treatment for manic-depression, OCD, paranoid schizophrenia and other severe mental illnesses?

Therapy and spiritual counseling will not heal these conditions, but they might temporarily seem to. They might also work for less severe mental disorders, which do not truly require psychotropic drugs.

To counsel otherwise is totally inappropriate and dangerous, Jim. I will continue to write against such belief.

You may feel totally at ease ruling out modern medicine and its practices and medicines and you may write of healing though prayer alone, but while I grant that prayer can work "miracles" in a patient's recovery sometimes, I must realistically submit to all here that many times more than prayer is needed. Actually, a land-mark study shows that prayer tends to backfire when the ill know they are being prayed for; the positive effects of prayer reverse when those people think they must be more ill than they have been told. Another simple land-mark study proves that "healing touch" is hogwash.

And..really! 1106 views of this topic and nobody dares to contribute!

-Jeanne
"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."

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jeanne53: Jul 8, 2017, 6:14 PM
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Re: [m7thprophet] DEPRESSION---CAN IT BRING A SUICIDE SPIRIT? In reply to
m7thprophet: Hi Jim.

CHRIS I APPRECIATE YOUR RESPONSE IN THE POST, I CAN'T SAY I AGREE WITH IT TOTALLY.

Jim, my friend, if you did TOTALLY agree with me then we would have nothing much to talk about, would we! As it is we may both learn something about why we each believe as we do.

Belief is usually based on experience or training. I guess both our experiences and training are different, so it should come as no surprise that our ‘beliefs’ might differ slightly, because our interpretation of the meaning of scripture is influenced by our experiences and training in the Ways of The Lord. That is why dialog is a valuable tool in the gaining of insight.

IT BOILS DOWN TO THIS ,THERE IS NOTHING THAT CAN'T BE TOUCHED BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD.

Certainly undeniable: And that Holy Spirit enables us to deal with Spiritual issues appropriately. It is important then that we understand what we are dealing with, in order to effectively encounter and defeat it.

When the unclean spirit has gone out of a person, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, but finds none. Then it says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ And when it comes, it finds the house empty, swept, and put in order. Then it goes and brings with it seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they enter and dwell there, and the last state of that person is worse than the first. So also will it be with this evil generation.” Matt. 12:43-45.

It is important that these words of Jesus are not simply taken at face value, literally. And here is why.

Spirits do not suffer thirst, they are not human, unlike us, they are not physical beings with stomachs and bodies which require food and water for their continued survival. They have no need of sustenance, either food or drink. They are ‘spirits’. The reference here is therefor metaphorical, but we must examine what ‘spiritual’ truth the metaphor reveals to us. ‘Waterless places’, ‘seeking rest’, 'saying to itself', 'needing a home', all suggest to me that ‘a spirit’ can only exist within a human being, or a group of human beings, or in extremis in a herd of animals. (see Mark 5:13). Outside of that incarnated context they simply don't exist.

Just like ‘human emotions’ cannot exist outside a properly functioning brain.

Let’s suppose the ‘demons’ that Jesus identified as such, were what we might now call ‘compulsions’, 'obsessions', 'phobias', 'delusions' etc. A person suffering from ‘obsessive / compulsive behavior’, for instance, might think themselves ‘cured’ by merely exercising sheer ‘will power’, ignoring the root psychological causes for that ‘obsessive compulsive behavior’ and attempting to live a normal life, by suppressing the OCD tendencies. (The condition appears to be eliminated but is merely dormant.) This would in fact be mere ‘repression’, and without recognizing, discovering and revealing the CAUSE of the obsessive / compulsive behavior, bringing it into consciousness and defeating its ‘hold’, the patient will almost inevitably suffer recurrent attacks of inexplicable anxiety and OCD behavior, accompanied perhaps by a host of other personality warping psychological conditions, brought on by the patient's obstinate denial. (seven other spirits, worse than itself).

The same principle applies, (according to the passage of scripture I quoted), to whole communities who obstinately refuse to analyze, admit and repent of their obstinate refusal to engage with ‘THE TRUTH’ when they have it staring them in the face. (As it was during the ministry of Jesus Christ on earth). Jesus had been comparing the obstinate obsessive opposition ‘attitude’ (i.e. spirit), of the Scribes and Pharisees with the open, seeking, learning, exploratory attitude, (i.e spirit), of The Queen of Sheba.

So ‘spirits’ are not actual ‘living entities’. They are ‘manifestations’ of unusual / undesirable or even desirable human or animal behavior.

Regards Chris.
Love covers a multitude of sins. 1 Pet.4:8b.

Last edited by:

rdrcofe: Jul 9, 2017, 3:50 AM
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Re: [m7thprophet] DEPRESSION---CAN IT BRING A SUICIDE SPIRIT? In reply to
I HAD WRITTEN A LONG REPLY TO THE PREVIOUS POSTS ON THIS FORUM AND WENT TO ANSWER IT TO THE FORUM AND QUICKLY SAW A MIRROR IMAGE OF MYSELF INA MIRROR.
MY REPLY WAS NOT WRITTEN FROM A SPIRITUAL GODLY PURPOSE. ALL THOUGH MANY THINGS WRITTEN IN THE OTHER POSTS WERE JUST IN SIMPLE FACT BASELESS; CORRECTION IN THIS INCIDENT WOULD BE TOTALLY WRONG.

IF WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN WAS INSPIRED BY THE lORD REGARDLESS OF ANY COMMENTS I MUST LEAVE IT ALONE AND WISH THOSE POSTERS WELL CORRECTION OF IF THERE IS TO BE IS MINE TO GIVE
SARAH I AM ASKING YOU TO CLOSE THE POST I WILL NOT BE WRITING ANYTHING ELSE ON IT AND IF IT GOES FURTHER IT DO MORE HARM THAN GOOD

I HAVE COME TO REALIZE THAT YOU CAN DO A POST IN GOOD ORDER AND NOT BE RIGHT IN YOUR HEART AND THAT MAKES WORK APPEAR WITH A SELFISH STAIN

MY APOLOGIES FOR IMPOSING ON YOU. IT WILL BE A WHILE BEFORE I DO ANYTHING IHAVE TO BE SURE I HAVE WRITTEN WITH THE RIGHT INTENTION

M7TH

INCHRIST
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Re: [m7thprophet] DEPRESSION---CAN IT BRING A SUICIDE SPIRIT? In reply to
Hello Jim.

You may do as you will.

This is my advice to any who suffer from depression:

Seek spiritual help from your pastor.
Seek therapy from a certified therapist.
Seek medical help from a psychiatrist, who is the only medical person qualified to prescribe psychotropic drugs.

If you or anyone you love is Clinically Depressed, suffering from Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder or fears that voices are telling you to say or do something against your ethics, or fears that you may do harm to yourself or to others...please do not hesitate to contact any one of these...pastor, therapist, psychiatrist... for help, or call your local ambulance service or go to the local Emergency Room in a major hospital.

It would be better to go to a clinic or speak with your Primary Care Physician than to do nothing. The important thing is to seek help for your illness. It is an illness, just as diabetes and heart disease and cancer are illnesses. Qualified people can help by directing you to appropriate care

Here is a national resource:

Need help? United States:
1 (800) 273-8255
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline
Website: www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org

Wikipedia has a page that includes international numbers and websites here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suicide_crisis_lines

-Jeanne
"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
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Re: [jeanne53] DEPRESSION---CAN IT BRING A SUICIDE SPIRIT? In reply to
Jeanne: Hi.

That was some very helpful information and advice Jeanne.

Here is something which might help anyone struggling with harmful desires, self destructive thoughts or temptations to sin:

Repeat to yourself aloud, these words from Psalm 119: 113-117. (find a private place to do this out loud, or do it silently in your own mind anywhere / anytime you feel 'oppressed').

It is a calming meditation.

Imagine, if you like, that you are actually speaking to your unruly emotions, as if they were a real person bullying you. Speak to the 'bully' as follows:

I hate vain thoughts: but God's laws do I love.
He is my hiding place and my shield:
I hope in HIS word.
Depart from me, ye evildoers:
for I will keep the commandments of my God
. Psalm 119: 113-115.

Speak then to God, who is your protector:

Uphold me according unto thy word, that I may live:
and let me not be ashamed of my hope.
Hold thou me up, and I shall be safe:
and I will have respect unto thy statutes continually
. Psalm 119:116-117.

This is just a 'spiritual first aid measure'. As a first line of defense it can be very effective. Either commit the words to memory or write them down and keep them with you.

Follow the advice of the previous poster and get help from at least one of the agencies she suggests. Do not just try to deal with this issue all on your own, without also seeking help ASAP.

Regards Chris.
Love covers a multitude of sins. 1 Pet.4:8b.

Last edited by:

rdrcofe: Jul 9, 2017, 3:58 PM
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Re: [rdrcofe] DEPRESSION---CAN IT BRING A SUICIDE SPIRIT? In reply to
Hi Chris.

What I am about to write might surprise you.

These phrases:

<<It is a calming meditation.

Imagine, if you like, that you are actually speaking to your unruly emotions, as if they were a real person bullying you. Speak to the 'bully' as follows:

I hate vain thoughts: but God's laws do I love.
He is my hiding place and my shield:
I hope in HIS word.
Depart from me, ye evildoers:
for I will keep the commandments of my God. Psalm 119: 113-115.

Speak then to God, who is your protector:

Uphold me according unto thy word, that I may live:
and let me not be ashamed of my hope.
Hold thou me up, and I shall be safe:
and I will have respect unto thy statutes continually. Psalm 119:116-117. >>

And your advice to speak thus, is very comforting to me, an atheist.

There is strong comfort in faith and soothing in words of meditations such as this.

In all honesty, though, I find the same comfort and soothing in some favorite poems or passages in "Leaves of Grass." But...what is the book of Psalms if not comforting poetry. That it comes with faith is a benefit to the believer, while delivering something of worth to the non-believer.

-Jeanne
"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
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Re: [rdrcofe] DEPRESSION---CAN IT BRING A SUICIDE SPIRIT? In reply to
Greetings All,
My duties on Praize are normally 2 things - a very small amount of technical input like changing the weekly Teachers' videos and helping Sarah moderate those who post on the site. We pray and seek God for wisdom to see His love manifested to all of you. We look back with wonder how that many who continue to hold to their doctrinal/traditional views have grown in their brotherly love one for another.
And sometimes I'm a 'hit & run' poster since I recognize in my self that I am not at the high level of debate that is evidenced on Praize. I only try and offer a different perspective from my limited theological perspective.

Chris, your closing sentence in your post regarding the spirit realm suggests that the verbiage used to describe demons/spirits having human needs is metaphorical not literal. Then you draw the conclusion:

So ‘spirits’ are not actual ‘living entities’. They are ‘manifestations’ of unusual / undesirable or even desirable human or animal behavior.

My question then is if a spirit's (both undesirable - demonic & desirable - angelic) attributes that are humanlike are metaphorical and not a 'literal entity' as you suggest then who are believers/children of the Almighty wrestling against in Ephesians 6:12? I'm like Balaam's donkey who 'saw' the angel with a sword in his 'hand' blocking the path and am speaking - literally like his donkey - that spirits - both demonic & angelic exist outside of a human or animal host. Just because it is beyond our understanding of the spiritual realm does not make the interpretation metaphorical. There are numerous Biblical accounts of angelic manifestations - Abraham & Lot, Zechariah, Mary & Joseph to name a few & both God, angels & demons speaking to humans & inanimate objects.
Sometimes our human mind can't comprehend that everything has a basis first in the spirit realm & then manifested in the physical. Things like the trees of the fields 'clapping their hands' or the 'rocks crying out in praise'. Even the fig tree had the ability to hear Jesus curse it and the wind and the waves obeyed the command of Jesus to 'Be Still!' aren't metaphorical because the fig tree literally withered, & the wind & the waves became calm to the astonishment of the disciples.
If our hope in Christ Jesus is only in this physical life, then we are to pitied more than anyone if Jesus was not resurrected from the dead & ascended alive in bodily form back to heaven where He is preparing a place for all, who by grace, have been saved from the penalty of the things they have done that they are not proud of to spend eternal life with Him & all the saints.
Our earthly mind can't comprehend the vastness of the spirit realm where we are not to wrestle against the flesh & blood of the physical realm but against the principalities, against the powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world and against spiritual wickedness in high (heavenly) places by metaphorically taking on the 'armor' of God - but literally using His Truth (Jesus), His righteousness, His Peace, His Faith (to quench the metaphorical fiery darts of the wicked one (the literal spirit named Lucifer) by literally using the Word of God which is metaphorically sharper than a 2-edged sword dividing the spirit and the human mind, will & emotions called the soul.
The question then arises of what actually happens when a person believes in his heart that God raised Jesus from the dead and confesses with his mouth that Jesus is Lord? At that the moment of salvation from a person's sins and the assurance of eternal life, was it only a change in a belief/faith? Or did something actually happen when a person is 'born again'? No, we didn't enter our mother's womb to be born of water but our spirit was 'born'. Jesus said that He was sending the Holy Spirit to live inside all who believe & it is the same Spirit that raised Christ from dead that makes our mortal bodies alive. So an outside entity (the Holy Spirit) literally - not metaphorically - resides in in me. How about you?
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Re: [praizeop] DEPRESSION---CAN IT BRING A SUICIDE SPIRIT? In reply to
EXCELLENT POST PRAIZEOP
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Re: [praizeop] DEPRESSION---CAN IT BRING A SUICIDE SPIRIT? In reply to
Hello.

I know your post was addressed to Chris, but I awoke this morning thinking on it.

To put it simply and in very plain language; you believe that if Christians accept that the Holy Spirit literally is within their body, via their soul, effecting beneficial changes, then they should also accept that a demonic spirit can reside there, via their soul, effecting detrimental changes...is this correct in a simplistic manner?

And...you believe that all that is detrimental to the body comes from the influence of demonic spirits, is that also correct?

Or is there a line that is drawn to distinguish illnesses due to "natural" cause? Or is it a case of believing that demonic spirits influence illnesses of natural cause to be far more devastating to the body?

Just trying to understand...

-Jeanne
"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
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Re: [praizeop] DEPRESSION---CAN IT BRING A SUICIDE SPIRIT? In reply to
praizeop: Hi.

My question then is if a spirit's (both undesirable - demonic & desirable - angelic) attributes that are humanlike are metaphorical and not a 'literal entity' as you suggest then who are believers/children of the Almighty wrestling against in Ephesians 6:12?

Walter Wink took a series of three whole books, just to answer the question you have just posed here.

Coincidentally, (in fact I don’t believe in mere coincidence where The Holy Spirit is involved), I started re-reading ‘Naming The Powers’ (The language of power in the New Testament). ISBN 0-8006-1786-X, only 24 hours before this thread started. Hence the sprinkling of quotes from Walter Wink throughout my contributions to the thread.

if a spirit's (both undesirable - demonic & desirable - angelic) attributes that are humanlike are metaphorical and not a 'literal entity' as you suggest:

It is not a simple choice between literal OR metaphorical, when ‘The Powers’ are concerned.

Behaviours, thoughts, imaginations, perceptions, phobias, obsessions etc. are by no means ‘metaphorical’ they are quite ‘real’ and ‘literal’. The ‘Spirits of’ Corruption, political intrigue, abuse of power or alternatively generous, honest, responsive, responsible government are all ‘real’ entities we each encounter every day. What they don’t actually have, (in my opinion), is a life and existence, (of their own), OUTSIDE of the person who is experiencing them or the Organization which embodies and perpetuates them. Nevertheless we still ‘struggle’ with these ‘forces’, and their effects upon us for good or ill are tangible and real, as can be attested by anyone who has suffered the effects and assaults of OCD, paranoia or panic attacks or experienced the effects of living under a corrupt and oppressive 'power obsessed' political regime, (as did the Early Christians in Rome, and many others even in our own time).

The metaphorical aspect of them is our tendency to ‘personify’ them and render them in terms of ‘physicality’. Giving them ‘bodies’, ‘weapons’, ‘intelligence’, ‘desires’ etc. Demons ‘thirsting’ and ‘hungering’, ‘longing’ for a person to ‘return to and dwell in’, rebellious, disobedient spirits, ‘consorting with one another’, having will and power in their own right, are ALL metaphorical images used to describe in understandable terms, the effects upon the mental state of human beings, the complex ‘inner world’ of the psyche and the unfathomable reality of human consciousness.

These mental images are often incorporated in scriptural narrative to describe an ‘inner experience, of the mind’, more effectively and with greater literary force than a merely mundane description of the thought processes of the person experiencing them would be.

The confrontation between Christ and The Devil in the wilderness is an example of the way metaphor and reality are mixed seamlessly together in scripture to explain the way Jesus agonized over the form his ministry on earth should take, and how it should be conducted, if he were to remain true to His Father’s Will. The passages now preserved in scripture were almost certainly related to his disciples, directly by Jesus, (how else could they have known of it), using exactly the imagery HE chose to use, to best explain his ministerial dilemma, the choices he made, in the wilderness. (Traditionally the haunt of unclean spirits).

Once the language and meaning of these metaphors is understood, even atheists can appreciate the wisdom and worth of Holy Scripture. It is no longer mere superstitious nonsense but a window on the world of the human psyche and the interface between the physical and the spiritual aspects of human experiences of reality.

Ephesians 6:12 :- For we are not contending against flesh and blood, but against the principalities (archas), against the powers (exousias), against the world rulers (kosmocratoras) of this present darkness, against the spiritual hosts (pneumatika) of wickedness in the heavenly places.

The writer to the Ephesians was not only talking about ‘demon spirits’ by using the words I have put in brackets. Furthermore he quite probably did not have the superstitious medieval concept of 'fork tailed demons' and 'disembodied phantoms' at the back of his mind, like many do today.

He was talking about the whole wide range of ‘Powers’ opposing Redeemed Christianity. Here are some references to the various ‘sorts’ of ‘power’ and ‘rulers’ that The New Testament actually uses the self same root word (Arche) to describe.

A. Arche
1. Human:
(a)Rulers of the synagogue, magistrates, judges, chief priests, elders, Sanhedrin, etc. (Luke 12:11)
(b) Magistrates, governors, police, church leaders (Titus 3:1)

2. Structural:
(a) Office, position, status, or place of angels (Jude 6)
(b) The authority or legitimate right of a governor to judge (Luke 20:20)

3. Spiritual and / or human and structural (to be determined) Rom. 8:38; 1 Cor. 15:24; Eph 1:21-22;3:10;6:12;Col.1:16;2:10,15

B. Archon
1. Human:
(a) A Jewish ruler in Galilee (Matt.9:18,23)
(b) The emperor and all kings (Matt. 20:25; see Mark 10:42; Luke 22:25)
(c) Jairus, a ruler of the synagogue (Luke 8:41)
(d) Magistrate or judge (Luke 12:58)
(e) A ruler who belonged to the Pharisees (Luke 14:1)
(f) A ruler with wealth (Luke 18:18)
(g) Rulers who had Jesus crucified (members of the Sanhedrin?) (Luke 23:13, 35; 24:20; Acts 3:17; 4:5, 8, 26; 13:27)
(h) Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews (John 3:1)
(i) The authorities who control Jerusalem (John 7:26, 48; 12:42)
(j) Moses as ruler (Acts 7:27, 35 twice)
(k) Rulers of Iconium (Acts 14:5)
(l) Rulers of Philippi (Acts 16:19)
(m) The chief priest (Acts 23:5)
(n) Magistrates, governors, tax collectors of the Roman Empire (Rom. 13:3)

2. Spiritual:
(a) Satan as the prince of demons (Matt. 9:34; 12:24; Mark 3:22; Luke 11:15)
(1) The ruler of this world (John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11)
(2) The prince of the power of the air (Eph. 2:2)
(b) Jesus Christ as the ruler of the kings on earth (Rev. 1:5)

3. Spiritual and / or human
(a) The rulers of this age (1. Cor. 2:6, 8)

So an outside entity (the Holy Spirit) literally - not metaphorically - resides in in me. How about you?

Indeed, The Holy Spirit, being an indivisible manifestation of The ONE and Triune Godhead is probably the ONLY ‘being’ that can be said to have truly independent existence, since all things come from God and EVERYTHING seen and unseen owes it’s very original and continued existence to the life giving power of the Spirit of God alone. Consequently anything which freely accepts God’s Authority and ceases all rebellion against God’s purposes, is REGENERATED with the POWER of God’s life giving Spirit. This is of course what has happened when anyone or anything is ‘born again of the Spirit’.

But The Holy Spirit is not 'an outside entity'. The Holy Spirit is that in whom we have always 'Lived and moved and have our being' Acts 17:28. Without God's Spirit nothing can exist. Everything is 'immersed' in God's Spirit and REGENERATION takes place when we finally accept God's Sovereignty and Authority by believing and living in accordance with the message of His Son Jesus Christ. God is omnipresent, everywhere, all pervading. Not ever 'outside' or 'inside' of anything. God is ALL in ALL. Where God is concerned 'OUT' and 'IN' are metaphors.

And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. Eph. 1:22.

So the Ephesians passage is not actually saying "We are NOT CONTENDING with FLESH AND BLOOD" because by use of the word (Archon) or (Arche) the author obviously has the WHOLE range of the AUTHORITIES and POWERS in mind, that we (the church), are contending with. The sentence is actually conveying the idea that the POWERS ranged against us INCLUDE also, those forces invisible to us as well as those that are visible to us.

The passage is saying NOT ONLY are we contending against flesh and blood, with metaphorical 'weapons' of PRAYER, FAITH, WORDS OF PEACE, TRUTH etc. But we are actually engaged in a 'spiritual' battle with the unseen forces of CORRUPT IMPERIALISM, MATERIALISM, INJUSTICE, IGNORANCE, PREJUDICE, GREED, Etc. These are our REAL enemies.

The invisible powers INCLUDE the Spiritual Powers in rebellion against God and His Christ and therefore hostile to US as Christ's redeemed servants and gospel messengers; but if we imagine that our MAIN struggle is against intangible, invisible, insubstantial, ethereal, immaterial phantasms, (There being little we can do against such insubstantial opponents), we are not likely to make much progress in pushing back the frontiers of corruption, perversion, crime, political oppression, disease, poverty, injustice etc. which threaten mankind on a daily basis and constitute the MAIN and REAL OPPOSITION to the coming of THE KINGDOM OF GOD.

The extensive use of the words (Archon) and (Arche) throughout the New Testament, to describe both earthly and heavenly 'Powers', means that Ephesians 6:12 should not be assumed to refer ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY to Satan's hordes. In any case the passage goes on the describe the 'WEAPONS' that we should use for defense and attack against these 'enemies'. The writer then supplies a list of metaphorical images drawn from Roman Legionary Military Equipment and tactics.

The ACTUAL 'weapons' are listed as 'TRUTH', 'RIGHTEOUSNESS', 'THE GOSPEL OF PEACE', 'FAITH', as a shield, 'SALVATION' as a metaphorical helmet, 'THE HOLY SPIRIT' as our OFFENSIVE WEAPON, the gladius, (sword of The Spirit), a short stabbing / slashing sword for disemboweling the enemy by thrusting up under their shields in close quarters combat, while 'STANDING', a military term for presenting oneself side on to the enemy with shields linked and 'standing your ground' until ordered otherwise. Each individual legionary depends upon his comrade at his left to defend his left side, while you defend your comrade on your right and attack the enemy to your right, while your comrade to your left attacks the enemy that is attacking YOU at your front, by stabbing him in his right side, behind his shield.

The whole military metaphor is one of reliance upon OUR COMMANDER (Jesus Christ) who is in charge of tactics, and our comrades in arms who listen for and follow HIS orders.

The image is profoundly metaphorical, not literal. We Christians were totally pacifist until well beyond 300 AD when The Church ceased being persecuted but then started persecuting others under Emperor Constantine, in the interests of 'The State'. (Ironically, the church escaped persecution but had just lost an important battle in the war against 'The Powers'. It had unwittingly become 'one of them'.)

Things like the trees of the fields 'clapping their hands' or the 'rocks crying out in praise'. Even the fig tree had the ability to hear Jesus curse it and the wind and the waves obeyed the command of Jesus to 'Be Still!' aren't metaphorical because the fig tree literally withered, & the wind & the waves became calm to the astonishment of the disciples.

Trees don't 'clap their hands' except in a truly metaphorical sense. Trees have no 'hands' to clap together. "The wind blows where it wills, and you hear the sound of it, (the trees clapping their metaphorical hands), but you do not know from whence it comes or whither it goes; so it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."

The fig tree withered because it was a parable in action of the fulfilment of Old Testament Prophesy. "When I would gather them, says the Lord, there are no grapes on the vine, nor figs on the fig tree; even the leaves are withered, and what I gave them has passed away from them. Jer. 8:13.

Mark 11:12-24. This event happened on Monday of Holy Week, just before the crucifixion, when most of Jesus' disciples had found his teaching too difficult and had left him, when his face was set toward Jerusalem and his imminent death. What God had 'given them', i.e Israel's and Judah's Messiah, was about to 'pass away' from them.

The withered fig tree is BOTH literal and metaphorical at one and the same time. It LITERALLY withered after being told 'May no one ever eat fruit from you again'. Mark 11:14. However the event was PROPHETICALLY a metaphor for the way in which ISRAEL and Judah had been found to be SPIRITUALLY UNPRODUCTIVE in its rejection of its own MESSIAH and refusal to hear and respond appropriately to HIS MESSAGE, The Gospel.

Upon seeing the withered fig tree the disciples pointed it out to Jesus as if HE would be surprised. The response they got was "HAVE FAITH IN GOD". Not to 'move mountains' or 'wither fig trees', but to BE PRODUCTIVE WHEN GOD EXPECTS IT OF YOU.

Once again Biblical literalism misses the point entirely and thinks it is a lesson in miracle working. It is not. It is a warning against obstinately refusing to accept The Grace of God and productively 'pass it on to others'. We risk being metaphorically told 'Let no one ever eat from you again'. (Believers with ears to hear, . . . . . listen!).

Passages of scripture which are intentionally metaphorical should be read and understood metaphorically, Passages in scripture which are intentionally literal should be read and understood literally. Some passages cannot be fully understood unless they are treated BOTH metaphorically AND literally. But the most important meaning of such passages is nearly always the metaphorical one, not the literal one. Literal passages just convey interesting FACTS. Metaphorical passages convey 'Spiritual Truths' and 'Scriptural insights' hidden from the un-curious, un-searching literalist.

Regards Chris.
Love covers a multitude of sins. 1 Pet.4:8b.

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rdrcofe: Jul 11, 2017, 9:05 AM
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Re: [jeanne53] DEPRESSION---CAN IT BRING A SUICIDE SPIRIT? In reply to
Jeanne: Hi.

you believe that if Christians accept that the Holy Spirit literally is within their body, via their soul, effecting beneficial changes, then they should also accept that a demonic spirit can reside there, via their soul, effecting detrimental changes...is this correct in a simplistic manner?

Logically that would seem to be the case. If the 'indwelling' of the Holy Spirit is taken quite literally as a form of 'possession' involving the Holy Spirit 'taking up residence' in the personality of the believer.

I feel you deserve an answer to your very relevant questions. I hope others will offer their personal opinions, rather than just ignore you.

Many believers have been schooled in that kind of theology since their days in Sunday school. I can't speak on behalf of other Praize members who might or might not hold those views but I have read the ideas of many 'teachers' who definitely seem to see the 'indwelling' of The Holy Spirit in exactly such simplistic terms.

No one who has undergone the indwelling of The Holy Spirit is likely to declare the experience to be 'merely subjective' or 'metaphorical'. It is definitely a real experience but each individual would describe it differently and some might not be able to describe it or differentiate it from any other normal experience. It all depends upon the person themselves.

Some people however assume that something has 'visited them' from outside of themselves and some of the metaphorical language used in scripture, if taken literally, might seem to confirm their assumption.

It is therefore a logical step for them to assume that, if The Holy Spirit works that way, then other malevolent 'spirits' can also 'invade' human beings from 'the outside'. So their Theology of The nature and operation of The Holy Spirit leads them in a natural progression to accept the possibility of 'invasion by hostile spirits', as a cause and an explanation also for all sorts of psychotic and physical illnesses.

Rather than rethink their theological assumptions in the light and understanding of the totality of scripture, it is easier to just accept what they have been taught as being the whole truth of the matter and therefore inquire no further into what might New Testament Christians actually have believed when using the terms 'fill', 'pour out (on)', 'indwell', 'dwelleth in', 'in the Spirit' etc.

St. Paul taught that The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit. That is, it is not merely one of a host of intermediaries, but in accord with the OT and intertestamental Jewish literature it is assumed that the Spirit is singular, unique in power and in its relationship to God. (e.g. 1 Cor. 2:11; Rom.8:9,11; 2 Cor. 3:17; cf Eph. 4:4).

That the reception of The Spirit by believers is sometimes described with terms such as 'fill' or 'pour out (on)' has led several to claim that The Spirit was conceived by Paul and the earliest Christians as a fluid that physically fills the believer. (e.g. Hunter 92), though in Paul's writings 'fill' is only one image of many, and it occurs just 3 times, (1 Cor.12:13; Eph. 5:18; Tit. 3:4-5).

Such language is evoked in part by purposefully echoing Septuagintal usage, (Greek Translation of Jewish Scriptures), and is best understood as metaphor (cf Joel 2:28-29, "pour out" the Spirit, echoed at Acts 2:33; and Mic. 3:8, "I am filled with power, with the Spirit of The Lord").

Paul, more than any other NT writer links the concept of the Spirit given to 'indwell' believers with 'living the Christian life'. The Spirit is not only the power of God convincing believers of the truth of the gospel, not only promoting its preaching, but the Spirit is the power of new creation to those who have come to faith in Christ. Christians who were formerly alienated from God have not simply been entered into the heavenly register of the redeemed; the Spirit 'indwells' them and 'empowers' them to live a life pleasing to God (Rom. 8:1-4; 12:1; 1 Thes. 4:1; to the Lord, 2 Cor. 5:9; Eph 5:10) This life is described as being "led by the Spirit" (Rom. 8:14) or "walking in the Spirit" (Rom. 8:4; Gal. 5:16, 25).

The main problem, it would seem, with literalism is the tendency to view literary devises such as myth, legend, allegory, metaphor, simile etc as being 'somehow, somewhat less than actually TRUE' in any real sense of the word TRUTH. Therefore The Bible cannot, (for them), contain any such things, because it must ALL be LITERALLY TRUE or it cannot be true at all.

The problem therefore is most often a misunderstanding of how to READ and understand the Bible, (particularly the frequent metaphors, symbolism and parables).

When we are 'filled' with a Spirit, particularly The Holy Spirit it is a metaphorical way of saying there is no longer any room for anything within us which is 'ungodly', 'unholy' or 'unrighteous'. There is metaphorically no longer any capacity within us, to do wickedness. Living the Christian life is therefore easier if we are 'filled with The Holy Spirit'. i.e. if we are enthusiastically seeking to do God's will by loving others the way God loves us, thus fulfilling the will of God.

Being already 'filled' we metaphorically 'leave no room for anything unholy'. i.e. "Be angry but do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, and do not make room for the devil." Eph. 4:26-27.

Being 'filled' is metaphorical because there IS no actual or literal empty space in us that needs to be 'filled' in any physical, actual sense. The 'filling' then must be metaphorical and the metaphor denotes 'wholeness', 'overflowing capacity', 'complete satisfaction' Etc.

"You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies;
you anoint my head with oil;
my cup overflows
". Ps. 23:5. This is an allegory, a symbolical narration, describing the effect of 'being anointed and filled with The Holy Spirit'.

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Matt. 5:6.

Show me a literal bag 'full' of 'righteousness' for which you do literally 'hunger and thirst', and I shall literally show you three metaphors.

Regards Chris.
Love covers a multitude of sins. 1 Pet.4:8b.

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rdrcofe: Jul 11, 2017, 2:32 PM
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Re: [jeanne53] DEPRESSION---CAN IT BRING A SUICIDE SPIRIT? In reply to
Hi, Jeanne,
I'm sorry PraizeOP has not had time to respond to your post. I thought it was fairly simple and straight forward; therefore I thought I would take a run at it. I'm sure you have noticed that there are many posts I don't answer, and that is simply because there is too much going on in them and I can't run that fast! Nevertheless, I know what I know, and I feel that sometimes that may be enough for a response.

I don't necessarily think it is a requirement to take the entire dictionary apart in order to learn a definition of a word. I think it can be the same with the Bible. First graders can be taught many things that will be expounded on later in life, and I often feel that I don't need the entire definitions and answers that some people feel required to questions on here. I would prefer simple answers with the option to ask more questions if I find it necessary.

I do want to get back to you on some of your questions anyway, with my simple answers. :) "To put it simply and in very plain language; you believe that if Christians accept that the Holy Spirit literally is within their body, via their soul, effecting beneficial changes, then they should also accept that a demonic spirit can reside there, via their soul, effecting detrimental changes...is this correct?"
(I tried and tried to make it blue... Oh for my old fashioned typewriter!)

To answer you, "Yes and no". Whether angelic or demonic spirits live within a person depends on the person. Just because the Holy Spirit lives within me, through the baptism of the Holy Spirit, after my salvation, does not mean that demons can necessarily live there as well. It depends entirely on my physical and mental behavior. If I am going to look at pornography, yes... a demonic spirit(s) will indwell me and have every right to do so because I have opened satan's door to my mind.

I do not believe illnesses come from "natural causes". I believe that there is always an open door. The fact that I have just been healed after two years of illness solidifies that fact. I do not know why I went through all that I did, but I did. Is it necessary for me to know the cause, not necessarily. I do know that one of the major forces of my healing was to quote the "101 Healing Scriptures" in the Health area of Praize. Once I got my mind and spirit dwelling on what Jesus had done for me by taking the stripes on His back, my body responded. For me, this time, it was not an immediate healing this time.

In all honesty, I cannot say (maybe Chris can?) that all that is detrimental comes from demonic spirits. I think that aging also comes from demonic spirits. I believe that if I took the time and effort to pray completely and diligently over my body, I could eliminate some of the difficulties that I have that are related to aging. Then again, everyone is different. So when you start trying to create rules concerning people, there are just too many variables to form definitive.

I will tell you this as something I believe with confidence. All GOOD things come from Jesus and our Father in Heaven. All bad things come from the enemy.

To get back to the title of this forum: DEPRESSION -- CAN IT BRING A SUICIDE SPIRIT. I will take it one step further... I believe that depression IS a suicide spirit. I believe its job is to kill people. I believe its name is SUICIDE and I believe born-again Christians can have authority over it. Hopefully what I have said has made some sense to you.

Feel free to ask again. I like answering your more simple questions! :)
Blessings ~ Sarah

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praizeop2: Jul 11, 2017, 9:40 AM
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Re: [praizeop2] DEPRESSION---CAN IT BRING A SUICIDE SPIRIT? In reply to
Sarah: Hi - Nice to see you posting again.

In all honesty, I cannot say (maybe Chris can?) that all that is detrimental comes from demonic spirits.

It is only my personal opinion, and I might be wrong, but I think WE human beings are responsible for our own actions, and will be judged according to our deeds. If we could make the excuse that all our deeds of wickedness were done 'under duress and at the irresistible compulsion of evil spirits', then EVERONE would get off at the judgment scot-free. No one would receive judgment except the devil and his minions, who would be held entirely responsible. We may be 'tempted' and either resist or 'do the deed'. Either way it is our choice, our responsibility and our deed, one way or the other.

Certainly, sin is addictive: pornography, narcotics, unbridled wrath, envy, hatred, greed, ALL the deadly sins invite destructive and corrosive forces to occupy our conscious and subconscious minds. There will be a price to pay for all this. (Ever seen the film or read The Picture of Dorian Gray). https://en.wikipedia.org/...cture_of_Dorian_Gray

They will cumulatively destroy us.

Whatever we may DO though, it is still US doing it. No excuses will be accepted now or at the judgment seat for anything that WE ourselves were responsible for doing in this life.

Even disease and illness can be caused by lack of hygiene, filthy habits and habitations, unhealthy appetites and diets, carelessness, ignorance and downright bloody minded obstinacy. ALL our own or other's stupid fault. Not 'demons' of the phantom variety but 'powers' ranged against us and our own interests nevertheless.

Perhaps, if they do have an existence of their own, they might bear SOME responsibility for human misery, but given the above list I wouldn't afford them much credit for the total misery of mankind. Mankind is doing quite enough wrong on its own, without much help or hindrance from 'demons', I think.

Regards Chris.
Love covers a multitude of sins. 1 Pet.4:8b.

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rdrcofe: Jul 12, 2017, 12:12 AM
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Re: [rdrcofe] DEPRESSION---CAN IT BRING A SUICIDE SPIRIT? In reply to
Thank you, Chris and Sarah, for replying to my post.

-Jeanne
"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
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Re: [rdrcofe] DEPRESSION---CAN IT BRING A SUICIDE SPIRIT? In reply to
Chris, I do agree with everything you said here! (I will probably resent saying that! LOL) I think it all fits in and no matter how long you and others can write a post, I expect there is always more to say.

I think that there are all sorts of ramifications and that illness is birthed by satan no matter how the person acquires it. Have you ever noticed that the Caduceus is composed of two serpents (snakes)? I wonder why... not really!

Demons may only have the option of temptation, and the final choice may be ours. That might be something some of us should think about.
Blessings ~ Sarah
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Re: [jeanne53] DEPRESSION---CAN IT BRING A SUICIDE SPIRIT? In reply to
JEANNE I HAVE READ YOUR POST TWICE AND EACH TIME APPRECIATED IT MORE. IT IS A VERY GOOD WORD.
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Re: [m7thprophet] DEPRESSION---CAN IT BRING A SUICIDE SPIRIT? In reply to
Hi Jim.

Thank you for letting me know.

-Jeanne
"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."