Sarah : Luv ya too.
Dovegiven : Thanks for the link : - very interesting and informative.
Regarding our present debate, it would appear that there is quite a gulf between 20th Century man’s way of reasoning and that of the authors of Hebrew scripture. That should not come as a big surprise. I’m sure that must result in a mismatch of ideas and priorities but can also mean that we can gain valuable insights if we are aware of the possible difficulties.
Quote :
“The Hebrew knew he did not know all the answers. His position was ‘under the sun’ (Ecc. 8:17), so his words were few (5:2). He refused to over-systematize or forced harmonization on the enigmas of God’s truth or the puzzles of the universe. He realized that no one could straighten what God has made crooked (7:13). All things, therefore, did not need to be fully rational. The Hebrew mind was willing to accept the truths taught on both sides of the paradox; it recognized that mystery and apparent contradictions are often signs of the divine. Stated succinctly, the Hebrews knew the wisdom of learning to trust in matters that they could not fully under- stand.
End Quote :
This is an attitude still appropriate today regarding the things we genuinely cannot get 'scientific' answers to.
Of course, I do not however believe that it is right to adopt their attitude to things that we might understand if we work at it. We should not attempt to make our 21st century scientific understanding subservient to theirs, as if their view was the ‘correct one’ and ours ‘wrong’. I’m sure they would dearly have loved to have the same extent of knowledge as we, after 3,000 years more history.
I recently read an excellent book by The Chief Rabbi, Johnathan Sachs in which he treats at length the cause of misunderstandings in interpretation which come about when a 1st century Jewish Rabbi who delivered his teachings in the Aramaic language and who read Hebrew, has nearly everything he said reported and recorded entirely in Greek.
There are so many idiomatic Hebrew and Aramaic sayings that simply do not have Greek equivalents which are capable of conveying every nuance contained in the original. Translate the Greek then into English and a little more again may get ‘lost in translation’.
The good ol’ KJV actually managed to bring many Hebrew idioms into the English language for the first time and we still have them today. We have got so used to them we think they are English idioms.
Fortunately there is always enough truth left to get the Gospel Message across because New Testament Greek was very specific, but Johnathan points out that a very ‘specific’ language like Greek is particularly suited to ‘linear’ thinking. Hebrew on the other hand is less specific but a lot more rich in possible ‘meaning(s)’. Very suited to the ‘block thinking’ of Mid Eastern Peoples. We (with our Greek / Roman modes of thought), like things to be clear cut, yes / no, black / white, right / wrong, true / false etc. They on the other hand could hold either / or and even both in mind without any apparent contradiction. A sort of benign philosophical overview of interesting possibilities. A frame of mind which provides fertile soil for faith to grow, mature and bear fruit. All metaphors you'll notice.
That is why it is very important to understand that metaphor, simile, parable and other figures of speech were much more widely used, understood and generally accepted by Biblical People than is common in speech today.
Paul had a Hebrew mind ‘conditioned to block thinking’ but communicated his Hebrew thoughts exclusively with highly accurate specific Greek terminology. No wonder they are difficult to understand in English. I still think Paul did a pretty good job of getting his message across though. What he wrote can still be trusted. That is why ‘I believe in the holy catholic and apostolic church’.
Regards Chris.
Dovegiven : Thanks for the link : - very interesting and informative.
Regarding our present debate, it would appear that there is quite a gulf between 20th Century man’s way of reasoning and that of the authors of Hebrew scripture. That should not come as a big surprise. I’m sure that must result in a mismatch of ideas and priorities but can also mean that we can gain valuable insights if we are aware of the possible difficulties.
Quote :
“The Hebrew knew he did not know all the answers. His position was ‘under the sun’ (Ecc. 8:17), so his words were few (5:2). He refused to over-systematize or forced harmonization on the enigmas of God’s truth or the puzzles of the universe. He realized that no one could straighten what God has made crooked (7:13). All things, therefore, did not need to be fully rational. The Hebrew mind was willing to accept the truths taught on both sides of the paradox; it recognized that mystery and apparent contradictions are often signs of the divine. Stated succinctly, the Hebrews knew the wisdom of learning to trust in matters that they could not fully under- stand.
End Quote :
This is an attitude still appropriate today regarding the things we genuinely cannot get 'scientific' answers to.
Of course, I do not however believe that it is right to adopt their attitude to things that we might understand if we work at it. We should not attempt to make our 21st century scientific understanding subservient to theirs, as if their view was the ‘correct one’ and ours ‘wrong’. I’m sure they would dearly have loved to have the same extent of knowledge as we, after 3,000 years more history.
I recently read an excellent book by The Chief Rabbi, Johnathan Sachs in which he treats at length the cause of misunderstandings in interpretation which come about when a 1st century Jewish Rabbi who delivered his teachings in the Aramaic language and who read Hebrew, has nearly everything he said reported and recorded entirely in Greek.
There are so many idiomatic Hebrew and Aramaic sayings that simply do not have Greek equivalents which are capable of conveying every nuance contained in the original. Translate the Greek then into English and a little more again may get ‘lost in translation’.
The good ol’ KJV actually managed to bring many Hebrew idioms into the English language for the first time and we still have them today. We have got so used to them we think they are English idioms.
Fortunately there is always enough truth left to get the Gospel Message across because New Testament Greek was very specific, but Johnathan points out that a very ‘specific’ language like Greek is particularly suited to ‘linear’ thinking. Hebrew on the other hand is less specific but a lot more rich in possible ‘meaning(s)’. Very suited to the ‘block thinking’ of Mid Eastern Peoples. We (with our Greek / Roman modes of thought), like things to be clear cut, yes / no, black / white, right / wrong, true / false etc. They on the other hand could hold either / or and even both in mind without any apparent contradiction. A sort of benign philosophical overview of interesting possibilities. A frame of mind which provides fertile soil for faith to grow, mature and bear fruit. All metaphors you'll notice.
That is why it is very important to understand that metaphor, simile, parable and other figures of speech were much more widely used, understood and generally accepted by Biblical People than is common in speech today.
Paul had a Hebrew mind ‘conditioned to block thinking’ but communicated his Hebrew thoughts exclusively with highly accurate specific Greek terminology. No wonder they are difficult to understand in English. I still think Paul did a pretty good job of getting his message across though. What he wrote can still be trusted. That is why ‘I believe in the holy catholic and apostolic church’.
Regards Chris.
