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Theology: Bibliology: Re: [rdrcofe] Sin Imputed (We Are Born Sinners): Edit Log

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Re: [rdrcofe] Sin Imputed (We Are Born Sinners)
Greetings ALL,

"For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy." 1 Cor.7:14.

If you say "No they can't" you need to explain to me what you think this Apostolic statement means. I take it for what it says. The children of a believer are 'Holy', the children of unbelieving couples are 'unclean'.

Do you see a different possible interpretation?

Holy & unclean - probable some definitions needed. Holy is often translated as set apart and unclean would mean they were flawed in some form but not irreparably harmed.
In my personal experience - I was born of both unbelieving parents, who were born on both the paternal & maternal sides to unclean parents. Therefore I was born unclean. I have no further ancestral knowledge than my mother's grandmother's obituary that said that 'no one had ever heard her speak a disparaging word' .
I am unable to find where God has any 'grandchildren' in the Bible and that leads me to believe the 'Roman Road' - 'All have sinned & fallen short of the glory of God, the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life, if you believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord and confess with your mouth that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Every place 'ALL' is translated in the Bible it always means ALL. Even if a child born of 'Holy' parents still falls in the category of ALL have sinned - and ALL need a savior. Everyone in every religion or atheist are believing that somehow they won't be held accountable for ALL the things they have done of which they are not proud.

My previous question:

Does 2 Corinthians 5:17-21 (previously quoted) suggest that by God reconciling all the sins ever committed that all humans will be in heaven and that only the devil & his demons will be in hell?

All sins are no longer held against the world, because God is reconciled with sinners, but not all sinners are yet reconciled with God, that means they are still holding God to account, which is foolhardy in the extreme, considering who and what God is.

God has entrusted 'the message of reconciliation' to us who have, out of gratitude reconciled ourselves with God.

So is it out of our gratitude (love) that we reconciled ourselves to God? OR is it because He first loved us and by His GRACE (unmerited favor) we have been saved through faith and that not of ourselves but it is a gift of God

"So we are ambassadors for Christ, since God is making his appeal through us"; we therefore entreat 'sinners', like ourselves, on behalf of Christ, to "be reconciled to God". As we have done, since we believe God is reconciled to us, through the atonement of Christ. 2 Cor.5:19-21.
Since all my sins were in the future of Christ's death on the cross where they were all forgiven when did I change from being born 'unclean' to having the mind of Christ and having the righteousness of God in Christ? Really the question is that if I have been reconciled by God & accepted his propitiation for my sins am I still 'a sinner saved by grace' of did that old man pass away (die) & now I am a new creation - 'a saint who sometimes sins'?

And that led to my next question in Romans 8:29 - "For whom He fore knew He did also predestinate to be conformed into the image of his Son" - has He chosen/elected some or all to become joint heirs with Jesus?

" . . we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly while we wait for adoption, the redemption of our bodies. For in hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what is seen? But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.

Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we ought, but that very Spirit intercedes with sighs too deep for words. And God, who searches the heart, knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. So we are saints & no longer sinners!

We know that all things work together for good for those who love God, who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn within a large family. And those whom he predestined he also called; and those whom he called he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified." Rom.8:23-30.

There a number of things worth noting in the passage you cited in your second question, two of which are these.

(1) Nobody knows if they have been chosen of God to be 'saved'. More importantly, and even more so, nobody knows whether someone else is 'saved'. It is God who chooses, God who foreknows, God who predestines, God who calls, God who justifies, God who glorifies. He did not consult us, does not consult us and will not consult us. And God does not inform us of the extent or number of those He has decided to 'save', except to say God wants a LARGE family along with His firstborn. But doesn't the Bible say 'The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.' (salvation) Or are you saying that the Bible says 'if it be His will' that some might be saved, some might be healed, some might prosper? Or is he no respecter of persons and what He has done for other He will do for me?

So if I am understanding your opinion, I can't know if I am saved after believing in my heart that Jesus is LORD and confessing with my mouth that God raised Him from the dead? Romans 10:9-10
I am being conformed into the image of His son so that God has a LARGE family, but is that where holy children born of holy parents would be considered nephews & nieces to Jesus and grandchildren to God?

(2) The only reason anyone is 'saved', was because God had a purpose for them. We are called "according to His purpose".

If God's purpose were to 'save' the entire world, who are we to argue with Him about it?
If God's purpose were to 'save' only some of it, who are we to argue with Him about it?
If God's purpose were to 'save' none of the world, we would already all know about it.

Both Abraham & Moses 'argued' with God! Abraham pleaded for Sodom and Moses begged God not to destroy the Israelites in the wilderness.
So God's purpose for His children is to Love the Lord with all our heart, mind, soul & strength and love our neighbor as ourselves and do even greater works then He (Jesus) did by going into all the world, and preaching the gospel to every creature. He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believes not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

So no matter whether we were born holy or unclean everyone who believes shall be saved

"And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world." Jn.12:47.
So we don't have to 'argue' with Him about it - He has revealed it through the promise to Abraham that the whole world would be blessed (saved) through him. And what could we receive more than having the same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead to dwell inside of us and make alive our mortal bodies as we wait for our immortal bodies to live eternally in His kingdom as joint heirs with Christ.

"The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." Jn.1:29.

So reverting back to the thread*s intentions: Were you, Chris, born 'Holy' or 'unclean' like me? And if holy then why did you need to be reconciled to God? Oh, I almost forgot that you said that it was out of your gratitude for Him reconciling you to Himself through Christ's atonement. Being born unclean, I am thankful that it was not by my works of righteousness which I have done but it was according to His mercy He saved me by the washing of regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Ghost. Titus 3:5
Choose you this day whom you will serve, for it is appointed unto man once to die and after this the judgement.
For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but will have everlasting life.

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praizeop2: Feb 2, 2019, 6:30 PM

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