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Theology: Bibliology: Re: [ProjectExodus] Sin Imputed (We Are Born Sinners): Edit Log

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Re: [ProjectExodus] Sin Imputed (We Are Born Sinners)
Hi ProjectExodus:

This first post of yours is a good effort overall, but does not get an A+ for an understanding of God's Grace or 10/10 for understanding of the terms of The New Covenant of which Jesus Christ is the Mediator and Sacrifice on behalf of the entire human race.

You make a number of points which appear to be valid interpretations of scripture, but in fact are not. The fault being a fundamental misunderstanding concerning God's Everlasting Sworn Promise the Abram and his Seed, which is the very basis of our assurance of salvation.

The nuanced way in which you have put your case makes it difficult to refute, even though it is fundamentally flawed and grossly misrepresents the character and honesty of God.

I hope therefore that this exposition of the case for the infants of believers being "Holy" to God, far from being born in iniquity as you wrongly suggest, are Covenant Bound and "God's Children" from conception.

It is only "The Wicked" who are 'estranged from the womb'. We are also according to the scripture 'Fearfully and Wonderfully made'. Our human nature is therefore far more complex than your erroneous article suggests.

"For thou hast possessed my reins:
thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made:
marvellous are thy works;
and that my soul knoweth right well.
My substance was not hid from thee,
when I was made in secret,
and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect;
and in thy book all my members were written,
which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God!
how great is the sum of them!
If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand:
when I awake, I am still with thee."
Ps.139:13-18.

Quote:
Read this:

So now we seem to have refuted all the nonsense of the infant baptism gainsayers, with their "But it's not anywhere in the New Testament" idiocy, we can perhaps move on and discuss the actual issue at stake, and it is THIS:

God, in the Old Testament, swore to Abraham an everlasting covenant with an everlasting promise:

"And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly. And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying, As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee. And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations. This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you. And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed. He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant."
Gen. 1-14.

God clearly kept his promise sworn to Abraham. To suggest otherwise is to impugn the honesty of God, and if we cannot rely on THAT what CAN we rely upon?

"To perform the mercy promised to our fathers,
and to remember his holy covenant;
The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies
might serve him without fear,
In holiness and righteousness before him,
all the days of our life.


And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest:
for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways;
To give knowledge of salvation unto his people
by the remission of their sins,
Through the tender mercy of our God;

whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,
To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death,
to guide our feet into the way of peace."
Luke 1:72-79

"He hath holpen his servant Israel,
in remembrance of his mercy;
As he spake to our fathers,
to Abraham, AND to his seed FOR EVER."
Luke 1:54-55.

Acts 3:25, 7:8, 13:26. Rom.4:1-25.

This oath that God swore to Abraham is The Everlasting Covenant. It was sworn to Abraham by God 400 years before The Law was given to Moses and can never be cancelled or annulled unless God can break His sworn Word.

"And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise." Gal.3:17-18.

"Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham." Gal.3:6-9.

The PROMISE is why the children of believers are counted "Holy" by God, yet the children of unbelievers remain "unclean".

"For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy." 1 Cor.7:14.

Now concerning the replacement of circumcision of males under the Everlasting Covenant by baptism of equally male and female.

"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Rom.2:28-29

"Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised. Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called." 1 Cor.7:18-20.

While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. Acts.10:44-45.

"The Holy Ghost fell upon others after they were baptized, to confirm them in the faith; but upon these Gentiles before they were baptized, to show that God does not confine himself to outward signs. The Holy Ghost fell upon those who were neither circumcised nor baptized; it is the Spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing. They magnified God, and spake of Christ and the benefits of redemption. Whatever gift we are endued with, we ought to honor God with it. The believing Jews who were present, were astonished that the gift of the Holy Ghost was poured out upon the Gentiles also. By mistaken notions of things, we make difficulties for ourselves as to the methods of Divine providence and grace. As they were undeniably baptized with the Holy Ghost, Peter concluded they were not to be refused the baptism of water, and the ordinance was administered. The argument is conclusive; can we deny the sign to those who have received the things signified?" (Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary.)

"In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands." Col.2:11-14.

This clearly demonstrates the equivalence of baptism to circumcision as symbolic of the "circumcision made without hands", which is regeneration by The Holy Spirit, in believing Adults, (to whom this text is addressed).

The promise of God to Abraham and his offspring, (those who have faith in Christ as Lord and Savior), is that their children will be "Holy" and are "God's Children", not 'unclean' as are those of unbelievers.

"Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter, That thou hast slain MY children, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them?" Ezek.16:20-21.

So the children of believers are not THEIRS to do with as they please. They are GOD's children from the day of their conception, and as such are Covenant Bound and Covenant Covered and "Holy" to God.

THAT is why it is permitted to signify their full entitlement to membership of Christ's Church by Baptising them.

In due course, all being well, they growing in the knowledge of Their Lord and Saviour and his teaching, they will themselves 'close with His Covenant' on their own behalf, understand and keep to their promises to Him on their behalf, and fully avail themselves of the Free Gift of Salvation offered them by God their Father.

If they feel it necessary to undergo full immersion baptism later in life to demonstrate a new found faith in Jesus Christ, then that is OK if it strengthens their weak faith. Otherwise their original baptism, (equivalent to infant circumcision), is perfectly adequate. Rom.2:28-29.


You say: Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

"Sin is not imputed when there is no law." Plain and simple sin is only not imputed when there is no law. There is a law, therefore sin is imputed."

You have completely ignored the fact that this sentence states the fact that there is no longer any "Law" condemning believers. There is only the "Promise" which came 430 years earlier than The Law and pertains to all believers and their children, just as the 'Promise' pertained to Abram and his Seed, forever.

Your article demonstrates the fact that 'Baptist theology' is ignorant of the operation of The Covenant of Grace. It is therefore ignorant of the extent of Salvation and the Gracious Character of God.

Even an atheist, relatively ignorant of the scriptures, could sense the errors contained in it.
.
In Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting the message of reconciliation to us. 2 Cor. 5:19. Love covers a multitude of sins. 1 Pet.4:8b.

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rdrcofe: Jan 28, 2019, 12:43 AM

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