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Apologetics: Christian Debates: Re: [MaryPankratz] Once saved...: Edit Log

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Re: [MaryPankratz] Once saved...
Mary : You wrote :

I agree with Sarah that if you can lose it...you never had it to begin with.

A lot of people get this thing all wrong. They don’t consider Jesus capable of rounding up any errant sheep which are His Property. Jesus can and does go out of his way to get errant sheep, (if they are actually HIS sheep).

The verse you might be looking for could be. “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. John 10:28-29.

Of course there is one catch for the OSAS brigade. Unless one has been called by The Father and ‘givento Jesus, they are not one of Jesus’ sheep. Becoming a Christian, getting saved, etc. is by no means a voluntary affair. Nobody chooses themselves to become one of Jesus' 'little flock'. Those who are called and then also chosen to be servants of Jesus Christ with all the benefits and obligations that that entails can have an ‘assurance of their salvation’. this is a Gift of God. Their assurance however would be presumptuous unless they were willing to persevere along with the rest of the saints, in living the way Jesus Christ taught and demonstrated during his life on earth.

It is worth remembering though that once anyone becomes a 'servant of The Lord', they come under HIS discipline thereafter. He disciplines 'those he loves'. " And that servant who knew his master's will, but did not make ready or act according to his will, shall receive a severe beating. But he who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, shall receive a light beating. Every one to whom much is given, of him will much be required; and of him to whom men commit much they will demand the more". Luke 12:46-48 RSV

I take this to mean that 'believers' may not actually face perdition but they may certainly face some hard discipline for our deliberate and knowing failings. That is why it is always better to admit our faults daily, repent and reform under the Holy Spirit's Gracious guidance.

Another verse worth knowing and often wrongly interpreted and quoted with regard to OSAS, is this : For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 8:38

Notice what is not mentioned in Paul’s list.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Gal. 5:20 - 25 KJV

So it seems pretty clear that once God has called, chosen and given into the care of Jesus, nothing external from yourself can separate you from the love of God or take you out of the hand of Jesus. No temptation will be beyond your capacity to resist, (so long as you remain in HIM). He has only ever lost one of his sheep. But just try escaping from Jesus once you are truly HIS. It's one sure way to find out just how difficult life can really get, until he gets you back in the fold again.

It is also pretty clear that if a person continues to ‘choose’ to develop bad fruit such as listed in Paul’s second list and refuses to accept the sanctifying power provided by The Holy Spirit in producing fruit fit for the edification of others, then Paul is very clear on the point that they shall not inherit a place in the 'Kingdom of God'. Even if by some chance they did, they obviously would not enjoy it because they ‘preferred’ a dissolute life to the one God could have helped them achieve by simply accepting HIS Way of grace and sanctification.

Anyone that has been so determined to escape from the love of God will have no one to blame but themselves for the consequences they may face resulting from their decision.

Regards Chris.
In Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting the message of reconciliation to us. 2 Cor. 5:19. Love covers a multitude of sins. 1 Pet.4:8b.

Last edited by:

rdrcofe: Mar 30, 2012, 2:27 PM

Edit Log:

  • Post edited by rdrcofe Post edited by rdrcofe (Veteran) on Mar 30, 2012, 2:28 AM
  • Post edited by rdrcofe Post edited by rdrcofe (Veteran) on Mar 30, 2012, 2:27 PM